Hot Tub GFI Trip - Strange!?!?!?

firemike

Got an interesting problem. I have a client that has a newer hot tub, installed about 18 months ago. The last couple months the GFI breaker (the main disconnect on the side of the house) has been tripping, but only when he is actually in the tub.

It will run for days with no problem. He was gone the last three weeks and it was fine. He got in it last night and after 2 minutes, the breaker tripped. It has been like that every time. It doesn't trip when he is getting in the tub, such as one foot on the ground and one in the water, it trips only after he has been in the tub for 2 or 3 minutes.

He doesn't change anything (ie pump speed, temp, etc.) Just gets in and sits there, doesn't touch the control panel or anything else. I 've been having him pay attention to what he is doing when it trips and it is always when he is just sitting there, and always 1 to 3 minutes after getting in. Yet it will run all week and never trip if no one gets in.

I have checked it's operation with the pump on low or high speed, the air blower on and off, etc. I even took a piece of THHN and wrapped one end around a screwdriver and stuck it in the ground and left the other end in the hot tub all night and nothing. Can't find anything that is related to the water level, everthing electrical is below the water level anyway so nothing is getting splashed or overflowed on, no leaks that I can see in the equipment compartment. The hot tub service guy is at a loss too.

Though about having the breaker changed but it seems like it shoud trip unnecessesarily at other times as well if it was getting weak.

Any thoughts????

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-Mike-

480sparky

If he's turning the pump on when he gets in, then he's changing something.

If it sits for days without tripping, and he gets in and turns on the pump, then I'd suspect something with the pump is the culprit.

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Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

firemike

The pump is already running (runs 24/7 on low speed) and he does not change to high speed, nor even touch the control panel. He just gets in and sits down, 2 to 3 minutes later the breaker trips. Nothing we can find changes other than the water level slightly, but can't find any reason that makes a difference.

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-Mike-

480sparky

I'd try replacing the GFI breaker first, and see if that solves the problem.

Outside of that, if the GFI is tripping due a true ground fault, it's time to either let the tub tech take over the problem, or time for a new tub.

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

Bubbles

maybe pressure (how heavy is he?) is shifting something underneath around. Have him sit on the 4 different sides and see what happens along with the other ideas.

mrmike

I would think it has something to do with him getting in & bringing the water level up over something that leaks onto an electrical component, or slowing the flow down from a jet, & backing up in that line causing a leak onto something electrical. How soon will it reset??

danceprometheus

GFIs are sensitive to motors and pumps.

danceprometheus

Is any water getting in contact with it?

danceprometheus

Make sure your wiring is appropriately rated, and breaker and disconnects.

danceprometheus

Make sure your grounding is good.

TxElectrician

I had the same problem with my spa. When I entered the spa the water level was raised just enough to allow a few splashes to get around the control panel. Tried tightening the panel to the deck, but no luck. A little silicone around it did the trick though.

Magnettica

Ok so have the HO get in the tub without the circuit energized and check for a short or a ground fault.

480sparky

Um, how many remodelers are going to have the test equipment for that?
Better yet, how may electricians are going to have the test equipment for that?

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

woodchuck2

I have to agree with bubble's and mrmike's suggestions. Something is going on with either his weight in the tub or water resistance. May be a chaffed wire under the tub, who knows how the wire was ran inside the tub upon installation.

Poolman

I agree with all of the above bits of advice.

We work on tubs all the time. We would do all of the above.

Also you may want to ohm out the heater element. After he removes the cover and gets in it begins cooling as the heat rises from the surface so...after a few minutes the heat is called and there is is a short in the element.

But it should be heating in between times with the cover removed or it would be a cold tub.

Other suggestion is to call a hot tub specialist in the area for a fresh perspective.

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Scott

Is this going to be expensive?
It's all relative.

Magnettica

You mean most electricians don't have a pair of Wiggy's or the really super-expensive $125 Fluke digital multimeter? I would isolate the problem starting at the load side of the disconnect and work my way eventually to the motor. If everything checked out as normal only then would I replace the circuit breaker but I don't think that's the problem.

480sparky

I'd start at the disco, and stop at the terminals inside the tub. If it's not in there somewhere, it's the tub guys problem. I'm not the Maytag repairman......

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

Magnettica

I agree.

Winchester

you could clamp the wires and check the load before and after. maybe the pump motor is drawing too much when he gets in?

However, I'd do what 480sparky said first

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Ryan

mrmike

You have 4 of these one liners here that I am sure everyone here knows-please just don't fill up a post with irrevelant stuff-----------OK ?