Hate To See This...

mdshunk

I hate to see installs like this. When I drove past this one, I had to take a picture. When I looked the building over better, I see that the installing electrician didn't have any other choices on where to mount the meter stack. The load side conduit is marked Sch 80, so I guess it's legal. What does trouble me is the apparent lack of a GEC of any sort to the meter stack. It might be in the load side pipe too.

JohnJ0906

Thats the load side on the bottom? And this is a public sidewalk?

dkillianjr

Ya thats a crappy, i've seen in bad neighborhoods people break the glass globes just for fun, espessially that looks right on the street. This might be a stupid question, but i'm no electrician so here it goes. What is a GEC? And on commercial applications I see a box usually about 10"x12" or so either above or next to the meter with a peice of capped pvc pipe comeing out of the top, what is that ?


Dave

JohnJ0906

GEC is Grounding Electrode Conductor-connects the service entrance to the grounding electrode (groud rod, water service, what have you)

mdshunk

Yes, and yes.

mdshunk

I have no idea, but I'd encourage you to take a picture of one. I'd like to see what you're talking about, and speculate what it might be.

JohnJ0906

I'd be intrested in knowing why this wasn't (or couldn't) be put inside. Maybe not enough headroom in the basement. Looks like that load conduit runs over to go in through a boarded over window-love to see that shorter too.

mdshunk

POCO rules require the meters outdoors, unless they're part of an underground network service.

Yeah, that's certainly the goal. As I'm sure you know, the NEC will permit service conductors on the exterior of a building to be of any length. In this case, the conductors in that load side pipe do have overcurrent protection, as you'll note the circuit breakers to the right of each tennant meter.

This is just one of those double-ugly installs that does also happen to meet code.

JohnJ0906

Marc, if you look at the bottom of the meter stack, just to the right of the load pvc, is that the GEC? It looks like bare CU, but its hard to tell.

mdshunk

Yeah, I see that now. I might have to go back and take a gander, and see if that is so. In any event, it's still ugly. I'm not sure that if I was doing this install that I could have done any different. The overhead supply is at the front of the buildings, and this was the only wallspace that wasn't a show window. I might have core drilled a hole for the load side a bit higher off the sidewalk, rather than going in the boarded up coal chute, but it's hard to say. Many of these older buildings had rubble foundations several feet thick. You can't core a limestone or rubble foundation, and that ceramic tile facade is scary.

JohnJ0906

This could be a case where the installer made the best of a bad situation. I really don't want to throw stones without a closer look.

mdshunk

That's kinda my opinion. I think I would have chosen RMC for the load side, if it was me. Mind you, it's no fun to work with, but it seems like a more appropriate material versus the schedule 80 PVC that this installer chose. Aparently, the inspector was okay with it, so who am I to say?

EDIT... on closer look, the inspection sticker is missing on this meter stack. Weird. In my area, it's a gold metallic sticker.

mdshunk

I had to run and get milk for tomorrow morning's breakfast, so I stopped by this place to snap another couple pics. As you pointed out, there are GEC conductors coming out of the bottom. They both appear to be #4, which worried me. #4 is fine to the rods (need only be #6), but I felt is was too small for the water line. Then I looked up and noticed that this stack is only fed at about 200 amp. Appeared to be 3/0 or 4/0 copper.

JohnJ0906

I didn't want you to make a special trip or anything! Actually, just yesterday, I took Mom to pick up her new dishwasher, and I noticed a nice violation. Since I didn't have my camera with me, I went out of my way today to stop by and snap a few pics!

dkillianjr

I deffinetly will I've been wondering what it might be for a while now.

Dave

JoeTedesco

Marc: Does that yellow label show Schedule 40 or 80? I think that if it is Schedule 40 that it would not be acceptable in that location. 300.5(D) and does that conduit enclose the SER's or feeder conductors to each unit while passing through?

__________________

mdshunk

Yeah, that was the first thing I checked. The pipe and the ell are both marked sch 80. That yellow label seems to be some sort of shipping tag.


I have to believe that at least a couple of them are in there. I don't know if they're SER cables or conductors. I did see at least one other conduit exiting out the back of that can into the entryway that is to the right of that meter stack. I don't have enough information to say whether that pipe is undersized or not. The "owner meter" did have a 30 amp main, so there's not much owner load, it would seem. The aparent lack of an inspection sticker on this stack now has me puzzled. I was too busy today to check into that. I'm not above making a few phonecalls to check into the permit status of "ugly work".

mickeyco

A few questions;

Can anyone walking by just turn off the breakers, cause I would do it on my way out if I had a friend that was a tenant.


Why would your care if it's not your work or building?

I'll say what I think some of the answers are.

Pictures of crap/hack work are entertaining and can be educational to use on a forum.

As an electrician that takes pride in your work you hate to see crap/hack work.

As an electrician, with the knowledge to spot a possible/potential hazard, you feel a responsibility to your fellow citizens to report it.

As an electrician, it reflects poorly on your trade when people do crap/hack work.

As an electrician that observes codes and permit regulations, ie. no permit possibly, you find it unethical that someone would do this work without a permit and possibly the credentials and insurance required, enabling hacks to bid the job for considerably less. Additionally without a permit who's to know if it's done safely and properly.

No pun intended.

Sparky Joe

It seems Mickey has a new avatar(still doesn't change the Mickey Mouse'ed work).

I think he pointed out that it is to code, and that there was seemingly no better way to do it.

At leats that's what I Read...........

mickeyco

Yeah it appears to be up to code, but if it wasn't permitted or inspected, who knows? I'm talking about why even look into it at all, regardless of whether it's up to code or not, and aside from sizing up the competitions work.

I see you like my new avatar, play your cards right I might be able to come up with something for you.