Grounding Flexible Gas Line?

kevjob

Had a call tonight from my electrician about a builder complaining the other sparky did't ground the flexible yellow gas line, I thought that wasn't supposed to be grounded?

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Kevin
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mickeyco

I thought those yellow flexi gas lines were coated with some type of pvc or plastic. I don't think you ground a gas line you bond it.

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Celtic

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/...ST+Bonding.htm

Here is a thread from another forum:
http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin/ultim...;f=11;t=001234

...from another forum:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=84103

...a pdf:
http://www.pddocs.com/csst/documents...l_bulletin.pdf


You may want to contact the City and see how that particular local is handling this.

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kbsparky

There was a class action lawsuit over this issue, and as a result, the manufacturers are now requiring that the flex gas lines be bonded. Something about the flex line rupturing when struck by lightning, and causing fires. Bonding is accomplished by use of a solid fitting, and not directly on the flex portion of the line.

There may be some confusion over the terms grounding and bonding, since they are sometimes used interchangeably. But the proper term in this instance is Bonding.

Edit: Looks like Celtic beat me to the punch on this one.

Celtic

here is that class action:

http://www.pddocs.com/csst/

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Magnettica

How bout banning this type of gas pipe to any building equipped with an electrical system. I believe it's a stupid idea to bond both gas and electrical systems. Whats next, bonding water supplies?

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Celtic

250.104(B) says otherwise.
Of course you are free to write a proposal to change that NEC article

Close...bonding pool water.

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firemike

On a project recently, it involved a service change. The inspector red-tagged it because the hot water heater wasn't properly "grounded". My electrician didn't know what the inspector wanted, called him up, this is what the require now in that jurisdiction, bonding the hot, cold, and gas lines at the heater. Is this something new? Seems kind of dangerous to me, or am I just "old school" and it is better?

Attached Thumbnails

 

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-Mike-

Magnettica

Ok, fine.

So why are we bonding it twice?

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Magnettica

Judging from that picture, it appears that the metal water piping system isn't grounded at all. Looks like you're missing either a #6 or #4 grounding electrode conductor back to your main disconnect. The jump from hot to cold is to assure no interuption of any fault current that may flow in the event the hot water is being changed or for some reason is missing. I don't know of any missing hwh's though, do you?

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firemike

When the electrician installed the new panel, he ran a #6 back to the water meter (and jumpered it) and to the two ground rods outside. I guess I am curious (electrician is to, the inspector didn't give a reason, just said it had to be there on the HWH.) I can see your reasoning for bonding between the hot and cold because if the dielectric couplings or removal (although almost surely temporary) of the HWH, but bonding everything to the gas line too? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen somewhere.

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-Mike-

JohnJ0906

The thing to remember, and the reason the CSST bonding got upgraded, is lightning induced voltage. Lightning does not need to directly strike a building to induce a voltage on metal systems. Without a path back to planet earth (grounding for real) this can remain as a capacitive charge, until a path is created for discharge. If that path is through a person....

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

JohnJ0906

As far as the hot-cold-gas jumper at the water heater, thats where I did it, just because it was a common place for all three, and the first place an inspector would look for it.

Almost never see copper piping these days though.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

JamesNLA

We are not allowed to use stranded here, only solid. But that bonding is correct. All 3 are to be bonded together. Another reason is if the home owner has a water softener or some filtration system, the plumbing remains grounded in the event of servicing or removal.

And tell your plumber to get those die-electrics out of their. Biggest rust generator you can buy. Use brass and by the looks of it, it will piss a leak from those nipples, before the bottom gets pin holes. I know they are allowed, but they are absolute garbage. As far as bonding the gas too, it is not dangerous at all. As John said "Without a path back to planet earth (grounding for real) this can remain as a capacitive charge, until a path is created for discharge."

That is different than CSST. CSST issues are the actual line blowing open in the event of a direct lightning hit. Bonding it (to me) will do nothing, except get a few people and a bunch or lawyers rich.

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Celtic

We are not bondng it twice...we are creating an equal potential.

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Magnettica

Normally the equipment grounding conductor bonding the gas piping on a residential-type furnace is #12 AWG at best based on 250.104(B). what size EGC will be required for the flex?

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Celtic

All the info is in the links provided.

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JohnJ0906

Actually, I think this suit arose from indirect strike damage. The charge would arc from the CSST to another system with a different potential, causing leaks. Let me see if I can find that file....

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

JohnJ0906

I have a pdf file I would like to attach, but it is too large. Is there a host site I could use? (like photobucket for pictures)

How do you guys do it?

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

JohnJ0906

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/50779...ngconcerns.pdf

Lets see if this works....

Hey it works! Check out the Overview (1.1) in this report. It says it's Indirect strikes this bonding is trying to mitigate.

I don't see any way that CSST could take a direct strike, bonding or not.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC