Ground As Neutral

gravtyklz

I just did a remodeling job for a contractor. Part of what I did was install six can lights. All six lights are on one light switch.


It seems that the contractor failed to relay to me that the customer wanted 3 on one switch and then the other 3 on a different switch.

In any case there is sheet rock up, everythings painted and ready to finish the job now. The contractors customer wants those lights seperated and isnt budging.

I've looked up some X10 solutions for it and it seems I would have to install an X10 reciever in each can light. After parts and labor I'm sure that would be around $500, I know the contractor and customer will hate that idea.

The panel uses tha same bar for the grounds and neutrals. I've seen some people use the ground as a neutral before. If any....what negative side effects would I see if I used the ground as a neutral for these lights and then used the white wire as a second switch leg? I dont want to do anything unsafe.

Also if anyone has any other solution for this problem ide appreciate it. The only way to get a new wire up there is to rip out all this new sheet rock, and no one is going to want to do that.

Thanks alot!

JohnJ0906

The contractor will pay you to properly re-wire these lights, and re-hang the sheetrock.

He screwed up. His problem. Don't make a violation, especially one that can be dangerous, to make it easy on him.

We don't put current on an un-insulated conductor.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

jrclen

By pulling out the cans, you can't fish a new wire? I would not use the ground for a neutral even if it meant mussing up the drywall. You have a license to loose right?

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John

aWorkaHolic

Don't go cutting corners on this. The GC messed up by not specifying that to you.(Hopefully that was the case) If it was the GC's fault he is responsible to pay you to redo the job to correct it.

gravtyklz

Fishing a wire isnt possible. theres 8 inches between the ceiling and the roof which is all covered with insulation.

Has anyone ever used X10 for controling lights? Having never used it I'm not that thrilled to charge such a high amount, and the particular customer is pretty picky too.

Kingfisher

You could still fish the wire with a hook from the box catching the wire above the top plate from the cans. Take two people and good feel but do-able. But I agree it the GC fualt if he did nopt tell you on the walk through and its not on the plans.

gravtyklz

Well maybe part of my problem is I hate fishing wire. I would have to cut a big enough hole in the drywall to drill another hole....as I recall in rough in there wouldnt be any rooms for a second wire.

Also the floors have already been finished....so I know they dont want anything cut up, and they dont want messy drywall guys in there. I dont know who the drywall guys are but they let me know how skillful they are by hacking off most of my wires and filling them all with mud, and even if I buy the biggest plates they have it still wont cover their over cutting around the boxes.

I tell ya....this is one of those jobs....anyone wanna buy an electrical business in Virginia?

Heck by the end of tomorrow I may pay someone to take it.

JamesNLA

Does no one else smell a non electrician playing sparky here?
This is redicules....ground as the neutral........

Guy if you have to ask THAT, please for the saftey of the residents......

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"....And then we all switch places when I ring the bell"
-Adrock

Jim M

Regardless of the size of the cover plates the Code requires that the gap alongside the box and the finished surface be no more than 1/8". If the gap is greater the surface needs to be repaired.

For someone that lists excavating and electric in their signature they should certainly know the consequences of what they are proposing.

gravtyklz

I dont know why I even bother to reply to this one but here it goes anyways...

#1: If you have nothing constructive to say, might be a good time to just "click" away

#2: I referenced that I had seen it done before and I wanted to know what the hazards would be. I dont claim to know everything so if it was fine/safe then why not? Yes indeed thats why I asked.

#3: Is there a moderator that can remove his post?

Speedy Petey

Why? I happen to strongly agree with James.
What, only folks that agree with you or will condone your actions are allowed to reply? I don't think so.




If you had to even ask this question in the first place I personally think you should remove "electrical" from your profile.
This is "Electric 101" stuff here.


*Edit - I see that you are only 22 years old. That explains a lot.*

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Celtic

Haven't you also the grounds/neutrals separated?


This is a collassaly bush league question..you are clearly out of your league.

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gravtyklz

The action of asking a question? I see no reason to condone that.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just asking a question. I see the point of why its not a good idea, but as I noted before i've seen it done in houses before and didnt know if there was some possability I didnt know about.

Yes I'm 22 and that explains why I asked for advice rather than make a rash decision.

gravtyklz

In the panel or in everything wired after the panel?

The panel is not using isolated neutrals.

Everything else....the neutrals are by them selves and the grounds are by them selves. No need to read farther than the question goes.

send_it_all

Duck!!

Celtic

There is a reason to read further than the question you asked.

In main panel...connected or separated?
In a sub-panel...connected or separated?
On a receptacle...connected or separated?
On a light fixture...connected or separated?
On a jacuzzi...connected or separated?



Didn't you ever wonder WHY? they are connected in some spots, but separated in others?

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Celtic

Are you:
Hoping I go postal?
Warning others I may go postal?

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Speedy Petey

This is our point Grav. If you are in this trade for real this is something you should already know is EXTREMELY dangerous and illegal under ANY circumstances.

If this is something you were not clear on or did not know yet there should be someone more experienced than you on the job to explain it.

If you are the boss and are charging your customers for your work you should not have to come here and ask such rudimentary questions.

Sorry, like it or not this is the simple truth.

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gravtyklz

I'll take that point much more constructively. I've seen a master electrician do what I asked about as if he were doing normal everyday business. Doesnt flow logically to me as being a good idea at all, so before I did anything like that I wanted to get more input.

And as per the question farther above...as far as I know the main panel is the only place they can be together....everywhere else is seperate.

Celtic

Do you know WHY?

Simply because "that's what I was told" or "the master did it that way" or " that's the way I've always done it" ...doesn't mean a dam thing.

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