GFCI Protection For Indoor Spa/ Hot Tub

Magnettica

As an installer of these jacuzzi's, where do you normally locate your GFI protection?

I prefer to install faceless GFCI devices above the lighting switches or somewhere else in the bathroom that is convenient for the customer in the event that it trips.

Speaking of which.... I have a tub to wire up next week that requires 220 volts. Besides using a double-pole GFCI circuit breaker with the panel located in the basement, is there anything else I could use?

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Speedy Petey

When I hear/see "spa or hot tub" I think a 4-6 person small bubbly pool with seats.

Are you talking about a "hydromassage" bathtub?
If so I put a GFI breaker in the electrical panel if the motor is hard to get to, or a GFI right at the motor if the access panel is easily removed.

These things rarely trip so I really don't care if they have to go into the basement to reset it. I HATE seeing faceless GFIs in nice bathrooms.

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mdshunk

I just put a GFCI receptacle under the tub where the pump motor plugs into. If the GFCI trips, chances are you've got to have the tub repaired anyhow, so having it behind the access panel is no big deal. I can't think of one good reason to have a faceless GFCI exposed someplace in the bathroom. I only feed these with GFCI breakers if they're something weird like a 240V tub or a 120V, 30A tub.

woodchuck2

My home is a modular and it has a faceless GFCI in the wall to the left of the vanity, looks like crap. I have left it because i am to lazy on my time off to rewire it, repair the drywall and paint it. It came this way with the home so it stays for now, working on my own crap doesnt pay the bills.

MALCO.New.York

How bout in the breaker box..........

Oooh....Never mind. Shoulda read ALLL of yer post!

But to restate....I do not know why you would use anything but a breaker.

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mdshunk

How about, because it's more expensive? A GFCI receptacle is the cheapest way to GFCI protect 15 and 20 amp, 120 volt loads. The breaker and the dead front GFCI are both about the same price... double that of a GFCI receptacle. There is no reason to need quick and easy access to reset a tub motor GFCI. If the thing tripped, you need service anyhow, so just put a GFCI receptacle under the tub with the motor.

JohnJ0906

I've never really understood the reasoning of having the GFCI protection out in the open for ease of reset.

How often do they trip anyway? I have rarely seen them trip, and when they do, they won't reset - there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

Celtic

The last 220v tub I did (6/07), I used a GFI CB ~ in my discussions with the EI, he stated "...good luck finding GFI protection other than CB.. ".

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Magnettica

I'm glad I asked.

So I think I'll change the way I used to do it and just install the GFI circuit breakers.

I didn't realize I was out on this island all by myself.

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Celtic

I wouldn't say you're Robinson Crusoe...I would say if the customer/client would like a faceless for convenience, I'd be more than happy to accommodate that request....would you be interested in a timer also?

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chenley

I contemplated installing a 20A DP GFCI to feed the receps for the heat and motor of the last one I installed until I saw the price of it. Trying to save this HO some money since they don't have a leg to stand on during their renovation. Ended up just running two 12/2's to two separate GFCI receps next to the access panel for the motor.

The one before this one I did run a 20A DP GFCI which was for a new construction project for one of the largest tobacco farmers in the area.

Magnettica

That's a great idea. I'm never around after one of these things gets going but, don't most of the high end "hydromassage" tubs have their own built-in timers?

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Celtic

I don't know - I'm not a plumber

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MALCO.New.York

I think in terms of most proper and simplest! Not least expensive.

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Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
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mdshunk

Proper is a matter of opinion.

Simplest is a the same for each method, since installing a duplex receptacle on a GFCI breaker is pretty much the same labor steps as installing a GFCI receptacle on a regular breaker.

A GFCI receptacle is cheaper than a GFCI breaker.

When it comes right down to it, it's a matter of opinion, and has nothing to do with "proper".

MALCO.New.York

Valid point Shunk!

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thom

In my jurisdiction we cannot install a gfci behind an access panel. A gfci must be in a readily accessible location, requiring the removal of nothing. On a typical hydrotherapy tub, even with an easily removed access panel, we must use a faceless gfci in an acceptable location (typically by the bathroom light switch) which feeds a receptacle within the confines of the undertub area.

If it's a big spa, one of the 220V powered variety, we must use a gfci circuit breaker.

Putting the GFCI receptacle under the tub as MD suggests is a guaranteed correction notice. This is one of those things the inspectors all check on both the rough and trim inspections.

Speedy Petey

Do they have any logical justification for this?

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thom

Inspectors and logic. Can you even use those two words in the same sentence? Their reason is, that's the rules, or the rules as they interpret them. The only explanation I've gotten is that GFCI receptacles should be tested regularly and if they are hidden behind an access panel they won't be.
In any event, around here, this isn't a borderline issue, to our inspectors this is absolutely clear, absolutely prohibited.

They do somethings less stringent than other jurisdictions also. We are not required to put smoke detectors on an AFCI circuit nor are we required to put bedroom ceiling fans/lights on an AFCI circuit.

JohnJ0906

I will hate myself in the morning for saying this, but.... that actually makes sense.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC