Gfci Protection

Softy

I hear ya. I did some wiring in nude bar once. Like it but I got wiring all messed up. Almost got in big trouble. Good thing I always test my work before power up.

Softy

I thought it measure Voltage between ground, ie: 0-115, hence "Ground Fault" CI and if it trip too many time you'll have to replace the unit. There're some place that required the unit be replace once the unit trip.

480sparky

The electronics in GFCI circuits measure only amperage. It could care less about voltage.

If the amperage of both the grounded (neutral) and ungrounded ('hot') are the same, all is well as far as a GFCI is concerned.

If there's a difference of more than 5ma, then it turns the circuit off. Voltage doesn't enter into it.

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

JohnJ0906

Where exactly does this "rule" come from? A personal preference?
And what exactly do you think gets plugged into receptacles? Appliances and equipment, among other things.
Properly operating appliances and equipment don't trip GFCIs. If they are leaking current to ground, higher than 5 ma, than the GFCI should trip - it's doing the job it was designed for.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

pking2

does this even need to be gfci protected they are not serving the counter tops the only one i think might need gfci is the set by the sink. but i also think you need to add a circuit or 2. I recommend not having the cooler receptacles on GFCI protected receptacles. Due to possible nuisance tripping and food spoilage.

480sparky

Many 'bars' meet the NEC definition of a kitchen.

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

pking2

I get that. He wasn't very detailed in describing the bar. (does it have a permanent facility for food prep and cooking?) but in a kitchen only receps serving the counter have to be GFCI but from the sound of his question they were not serving the counter they were just supplying the coolers and don't need to be GFCI. and really you can't answer his question unless we have a little more info about the coolers

Electric_Light

GFCI is basically a spring loaded switch. When the electronics senses an imbalance between the two conductors, it will trigger the solenoid to trip the latch,which causes an interruption of power under load creating an arc.

Arc wears out contacts. Unlike switches, relays, or SWD breakers, contacts in GFCIs are not intended to be able to handle thousands of power interruption under load.

Another thing is that the sensing system is all electronic, so power surge and such can destroy them.

480sparky

Unless listed as such. Switch-rated GFCIs are available.

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

Electric_Light

I forgot panel GFCIs existed..

Switch rated GFCI outlets though?

Ponsse

I understand perfectly well how a GFCI works, it is about the simplest device out there. I was asking CK1 about his statement of the neutral being as sensitive as the ground and his reasoning behind what he was trying to get across because it didn't really make sense the way he stated it. It's a balancing act and not really about how sensitive a ground is or how sensitive a neutral is, it's about the allowable current difference between the conductors that are supposed to be carrying the current.

pking2

so does this need to be gfci protected?

480sparky

Yep; P&S catalog Nos. 2085x. Rated 1½ HP control rating.

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

Electric_Light

Hmm, not sure if this means the same thing as SWD rated breakers intended to control lights in a gym as a switch.

Is this product rated to have the reset/trip buttons used as a switch to control the downstream load on a regular basis?

480sparky

I would say it could turn a 1½ HP motor on and off.

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

JohnJ0906

Whether or not the receptacle serves the counter top only matters in a dwelling unit. Non-dwelling unit kitchens must have ALL 125v, 15 + 20 amp receptacles protected by GFCI.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

pking2

thanks i didn't know that i'm still getting acquainted with the code

JohnJ0906

210.8(A) is GFCI protection for dwelling units, 210.8(B) is for everywhere else.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

CK1

You know, I guess it's been quite some time since I've been in the field. I've moved on to high-rise construction as an MEP Manager.

So I forget where that came from honestly. I know here in So Cal it at least always used to be 5 devices after the GFI. I don't remember if that was a manuf. recommendation or I thought it was code. I just don't remember. I do I never had any problems with the line sticking to that rule.

I guess what I meant by not for appliances was more for like undercounter fridges and freezers, GD's & DW's and etc. Motors and bigger appliances never seem to do well on GFI's was my recollection.

JohnJ0906

The standards for both GFCIs and appliances have changed over the years - modern appliances shouldn't trip a GFCI unless there is a ground fault - in which case the GFCI is doing it's job.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC