Gauge size - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

angus242 · 10-21-2009, 01:14 PM

What gauge wire do you need for a 60A line run about 35'?

No, I'm not doing electrical work. I will be drywalling my garage but want to stub a pipe behind the wall for a future sub-panel in there.

I am getting a main panel upgrade next year and will being put a 60A sub-panel in the garage. I just want to stub the pipe from the garage to the house so I don't need to rip apart the drywall in the spring. Not sure if 3/4" EMT is big enough. Obviously, my house is piped.

Thanks

Static Design · 10-21-2009, 03:11 PM

Generically speaking 6 awg is acceptable, depending on the type of conductors used will determine if you can use 3/4" or if you will have to bump it up to 1".

mrmike · 10-21-2009, 05:10 PM

Our Standard in Industry was to use #4 Awg for 60 amps. It covers most types of wire. Also I would go with 1 1/2" pvc conduit for that application............

Speedy Petey · 10-21-2009, 05:42 PM

For a new run, #6cu is typically appropriate for a 60A feeder or circuit. There are a lot of variables, but #6 is a safe bet if you don't know what you need it for right now. Especially considering this is THHN in conduit.

Unless the run is very long #4 is overkill.

mrmike · 10-21-2009, 06:47 PM

I Just know I would get a response from like the above that #4 is "Overkill" . We never used that word in the Electrical field in Industry. Yes, There are a lot of Variables as Temperature rating, Type wire, # of conductors, length of run etc As i stated this was our rule of thumb, & I still stick to it to this Day. How much are you gonna save? It's like Going 24" OC with Studs instead of 16". Please drop That Word !!!!!!!!US National Electrical Codemaximum AmperageAWG Wire Size Two Current Carrying Conductors Three Current Carrying Conductors AmpereAmpere18710161013141518122025102530835406455 54607028095 Ampere71016101314151812202510253083540645554607028 095

480sparky · 10-21-2009, 06:52 PM

1" will be God's plenty big enough.

Speedy Petey · 10-21-2009, 06:59 PM

Damn Mike, why so defensive???

You wrote "Our Standard in Industry..."
I wrote "#6cu is typically appropriate..."

Neither was a code quote or concrete advice.

You never use the word overkill? That's great, especially if you are not paying the bills or the one telling the customer how much it's going to be.

How much? Who knows? For a few of thousand feet I bet it's more than a few dollars.

The last part of your post? I have NO Idea what you are talking about. Sorry.

mrmike · 10-21-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Damn Mike, why so defensive???

You wrote "Our Standard in Industry..."
I wrote "#6cu is typically appropriate..."

Neither was a code quote or concrete advice.

You never use the word overkill? That's great, especially if you are not paying the bills or the one telling the customer how much it's going to be.

How much? Who knows? For a few of thousand feet I bet it's more than a few dollars.

The last part of your post? I have NO Idea what you are talking about. Sorry.

Yo Pete, Yes, I'm Defensive, becuase there is usually a response like this-jumping at some advice that others give on here. " Overkill " was pointed at my advice. Just like the last one -"Quote" 1" conduit is big enough !! Lots of Smart answers here trying to Contradict someone elses.. Are we trying to be Smarter here or what??? I just try to give my opinion & not bash other peoples opinions! Is it easier to pull 3/C #4 or 6 awg in 1 1/2" or 1" ??? How much more is it gonna cost for 35' ???????? Check the tables for American Wire Gauge, Etc. There are a lot of variables, so Why state "Overkill" here?? Yes it is a rule of thumb and a good one to Practice.

angus242 · 10-21-2009, 07:49 PM

Fun in the electrical forum! At least I'm not the one getting yelled at.

I don't know what the specifics are going to be. I know it will be fed by a 60A circuit. I don't know what type of wire is necessary, THHN or not. The sub-panel will have 2) 20A and 1) 15A circuits. I am assuming at worst they'll need to run 3 #6's and I figured 3/4" wouldn't work. I doubt I can use pvc as I'll be following Chicago code. I hear it's a stingy one.

Either way, I guess if I just use 1" EMT it'll be fine. It's an easy run in a basement with a dropped ceiling directly to the garage wall so very few bends and nothing but the ajoining garage wall to go through. I just thought I'd stir up some.....er, I mean ask to be on the safe side. I'll stub the 1" and if I went overkill, oh well. It sure won't make it any harder when the sparky has to pull the line!

Thanks for the replies!

480sparky · 10-21-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmike

..........US National Electrical Codemaximum AmperageAWG Wire Size Two Current Carrying Conductors Three Current Carrying Conductors AmpereAmpere18710161013141518122025102530835406455 54607028095 Ampere71016101314151812202510253083540645554607028 095

Speedy Petey · 10-21-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmike

Yo Pete, Yes, I'm Defensive, becuase there is usually a response like this-jumping at some advice that others give on here. " Overkill " was pointed at my advice. Just like the last one -"Quote" 1" conduit is big enough !! Lots of Smart answers here trying to Contradict someone elses.. Are we trying to be Smarter here or what??? I just try to give my opinion & not bash other peoples opinions! Is it easier to pull 3/C #4 or 6 awg in 1 1/2" or 1" ??? How much more is it gonna cost for 35' ???????? Check the tables for American Wire Gauge, Etc. There are a lot of variables, so Why state "Overkill" here?? Yes it is a rule of thumb and a good one to Practice.

Holy crap man. How do you make it in the real world???

Lighten up and don't take it so personal. You know what they say about opinions.

If you consider this "jumping at" or bashing your advice stick around. This is nothing.

Sure, 1.5" and #4 would work great. So would #6 and 1". THAT'S the point.
Not every job is some big commercial or industrial project where money, labor and resources are unlimited.

Speedy Petey · 10-21-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Yeah, I know. I bet it was a copy & paste gone wrong.

Inner10 · 10-21-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

How much are you gonna save? It's like Going 24" OC with Studs instead of 16". Please drop That Word !!!!!!!!

Wowzers, I'm all for doing things properly but there is a line between doing it right and being wasteful.

So what are you going to save personally? Not a heck of alot, but excessive overbuilding is wasteful to our planet's precious resources, so from that respect you would be saving the world.

Lemme guess? You never run #14 in residential houses only 12 and 10 right? Because it doesn't cost THAT much more?

Tiger · 10-22-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angus242

What gauge wire do you need for a 60A line run about 35'?

No, I'm not doing electrical work. I will be drywalling my garage but want to stub a pipe behind the wall for a future sub-panel in there.

I am getting a main panel upgrade next year and will being put a 60A sub-panel in the garage. I just want to stub the pipe from the garage to the house so I don't need to rip apart the drywall in the spring. Not sure if 3/4" EMT is big enough. Obviously, my house is piped.

Thanks

I'm to the north of you in McHenry County, IL. I built a detached garage a few years ago and the run was about 60'. I ran four 3 ga copper THWN wires in 1.5" rigid metal conduit with a 100 amp subpanel. I know you're asking about 60 amp, but it's only 35' and it won't cost much more to boost it to 100 amps. You might want to run a welder or heater out there some day. If you run 3/4" or 1" conduit it'll limit your options in the future.

woodchuck2 · 10-22-2009, 08:51 AM

#6 stranded copper would be fine IMO, 3/4" EMT may be a little tight for a pull and may be a heat issue depending on the load used. Alot of folks here run #4 aluminum for a sub-panel as it is much cheaper than #6 copper. Obviously a larger conduit would be needed for #4.

480sparky · 10-22-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodchuck2

....... 3/4" EMT may be a little tight for a pull and may be a heat issue depending on the load used. ..........

Raceway size has nothing to do with conductors heating up. #6s in a 3/4" pipe will heat up just as much as #6s in a 6" pipe.

Immanuel · 10-22-2009, 12:58 PM

forget that ... if your gonna overbuild it , do it right

use double runs of 4" conduit ... and 4 lines of 700MCM in each pipe . (Cause you never know you might need spare circuits)

sparks134 · 10-30-2009, 04:28 PM

mrmike · 10-30-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immanuel

forget that ... if your gonna overbuild it , do it right

use double runs of 4" conduit ... and 4 lines of 700MCM in each pipe . (Cause you never know you might need spare circuits)

This is such a far out "smart" answer-it is not funny as you may think !!!!You 'new Generation" Sparkys have a lot to learn- Always think ahead when installing anything electrical-that some day you may have to go back to it. Use common Sense! Look down the Road !! Think about if, for example that cable goes bad-& you have to hook on to it & pull in a new cable thru that conduit- You just don't install & forget about it-same with gauge size- Get my Drift ???????????? I don't know it all like some like to pretend-but I've been there-done that !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bubbles · 10-30-2009, 05:39 PM

I have to agree with Mike. Most people can't foresee all possibilities before the job. For some reason as soon as the trench is buried or the drywall is hung then the memory miraculously comes back. Just run #2 Al Quadplex URD. It's 100 amp, no conduit except at ends, and it's half the price as Cu Thhn and your done and have extra when the welder, compressor, or heater shows up.

Later