Garage Service Question

Edsollen

This
I am building a garage 100 feet behind my house. I ran a
3" PVC pipe from the house to the garage for conduit,
can I feed 100 amps from my 200 amp house panel to the
garage instead of bringing a new service from the street.
If I bring a new service will they charge me a business rate?
MD since you are close to my area maybe you can help me out

RobertWilber

3" is a serious piece of pipe.
Why COULDN'T you run from your house to the garage? Just get the wire size right for your load.
You may actually rather have a new meter for the garage, but in Philadelphia you will have a hard time getting a second service, unless you go as a separate entity [like a business].
Call the power company and ask about the rate.
You could always file a service and meter app and see if they will go for it...

Sparky Joe

You can put a 100amp breaker in your 200 amp panel, there are no rules against this. And more likely than not you will never run 200 amps at a time from your house and garage at the same time (I'd bet not even 100 amps).

A 3 inch will make things nice and if an electrician has to pull it he will thank you for it. In my area the electric utility requires a 3" since the beginning of the year for all new service(though this will not be a new service), just to make things easier on themselves, even though the size wire they pull is not much larger than what you will pull.

Edsollen

Thanks for the replies,
I was also thinking about pulling a cable TV and computer network wire in the same conduit would that be acceptable as well and what about electrical interference?

A.W.Davis

Cant do that, just run the coax and cat5 in seperate conduit. It wouldnt be a bad idea to run an extra conduit for future circuits or whatever else also.

Conduit is pretty cheap

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A.W. Davis Construction Co.
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GregS

Definately run the data in a separate conduit at least 5cm over. Running data parallel with voltage in close proximity can possibly induce your signal and provide a lousy result.

As someone said, conduit is cheap. Just make sure you glue it and protect it properly and you are set.

I do data. I am not an electrician.

mdshunk

Yep, you can run from the house to the garage, but you might not want to. If you do any welding in the garage, the lights will wink in the house. Your panel is pretty full already, as I remember. If you do a seperate service at the garage, you will be charged a slightly higher "business rate", which is nominal. Allegheny has no problem with the second service. It will be easier to keep the electric charges seperate for the IRS if you have a seperate service service, as I think your garage will be mostly or all business use. If you run out of the house, no big deal, but it might be a good idea to put a "submeter" at the garage that you own that you can read once a year when you prepare your taxes.

If you do a seperate service at the garage, you will be charged a slightly higher "business rate", which is nominal. Allegheny has no problem with the second service.

In fact, I will be helping you. I'll be the official pipe bender on your project when you're ready, as that's what I do very well.

The interferance is a genuine issue, but the more important reason is that it is a violation. Run a seperate pipe. We like 2" for the low voltage. We'll normally run a RG6 for TV cable, and a Cat5e for phones. If you plan to ever put an alarm system in that shop, we might install a pull string for later alarm conductors to the house. I've even run 18 gauge "thermostat" wire to remote shops for people that want a garage door opener button at the house, so they can open the door for a delivery without having to leave the warm house. An intercom wire is another popular thing, so the wife can holler when dinner's ready.

Sparky Joe

Meaning you know how to make 4 point saddles with factory 90's off the shelf at Home Depot?

mdshunk

I don't use factory bends for anything except PVC. Sometimes not even then. I was a pipe bender from the very beginning of my career. I am one of the best conduit guys I know. EdSollen will know, as I did some nice pipe work on the back porch of his 211 property, and I have no doubt he'll vouch for that. My partner in crime, however,.... not so good with pipe.

Sparky Joe

Just teasing MD, I don't doubt your abilities one bit; though I think I could hold a torch to you.

mdshunk

I have little doubt, as you are union. Most of the union work is pipe and wire work. Remember, once upon a time, I was union too. Matter of fact, many of the electrical contributors on this site were once union. Consider the fact that I am in a rural area. There's plenty of commercial work going on, but mostly by out-of-town electrical contractors. A local electrician that does pipe well is quite rare in my area, I can assure you. I still often keep a Benfield booklet under the tristand when I'm on an all pipe job... particularly rigid. You don't want to mess anything up with the prices of steel today. I recently did a reasonably sized explosion proof job in RMC at a local army facility with -zero- misbends. Very little cutoff waste too. I was tickled with myself. It's sort of a private challenge I give myself on every pipe job. There's no shame in a few misbends, but I struggle to not have any.

Sparky Joe

I can sling EMT like nobody's business, one of my favorite worktime passtimes.
The rigid is a bit of a pain, and our 555sb is a piece of chit, not old, just not a good model. Luckily those types of jobs aren't so pushy as far as a timeline and when the 'fat cat' refinery is buying the material it's okay to scrap a few pieces for your own mental well being of 'feet-per-day'. And nipples are always needed from those 'what was I thinking' pieces.

Edsollen

Yep MD that was some good pipe bending at 211, it's still there and working fine.
One more "how bout" on my garage. "How bout" pulling a 3/4" black plastic flexible 100# water pipe containing the data type cables thru the 3" conduit. I'm trying to avoid digging another 100' ditch, I've already dug one for water, one for sewer, one for spouting, one for floor drain as well as the 3" one we have been discussing, I'm not sure the wife will tolerate any more yard disruptions

mdshunk

Nope, sorry. There's no compliant way to get your phone, network, and cable stuff out there in the same pipe as your feeder conductors. I sorta feel bad that this was overlooked. I think it will be important for you to have phone, network, and cable out there.

That is why digging that ditch when she's away for a weekend will be important. Either that, or tell her you made her a really long, skinny flowerbed for Christmas. Use your imagination.

Seriously though, these low voltage cables don't have to be real deep. You can sleeve it in black poly water pipe if you want to scrimp, and dig the ditch with a borrowed one bottom plow.

72chevy4x4

I laid down 1" conduit for phone in the same ditch as the 100amp service to my garage (~100ft). Someone, I got a lot of interference (using DSL-so the phone line needs to be 'clean') and had to disconnect it. Not sure, but I think the problem is the wire became wet in the conduit-which would indicate I screwed up! I was considering a direct burial wire for phone, but the stuff I found is very expensive.

I also have a 200A box w/ 100A service to the garage. Only problem I've ever had w/ welding is tripping the 240v breaker (50A) in the garage using a 225A stick welder. It's nice to have enough power to do whatever you want-a tv and internet would be great (make it easier when troubleshooting problems to jump on the net!).

good luck.

Sparky Joe

All underground conduits will get water in them that's why inspectors want to know what type of wire you pull in underground runs.

Even if we used the good glue plumbers do, then there would still be an issue with condesation(due to the ends not being sealed)