Fact Or Fiction Dock Wiring

hurricaneflyer

I was working for a guy today that said "back in the day" they used to run a single hot wire out to a dock and sink a wire in the water that served as the neutral.

Have any of you seen this before, or is some kind of urban legand.

K2

I vote fiction. I tried something similar and it didn't work.

Sparky Joe

I've heard lots of neat stories about distribution stuff. In California they used the ocean as the return path to save money until fish started floating to the top.
And here in Utah they still use the earth as the return for power plants, farmers claimed when the plants were shutdown for maintenance their cows fine, but otherwise they have problems with the cows. Of course no one wants to believe some idiot farmer so they still do it that way.

mdshunk

In western Austrailia, they do have SWER distribution systems (single wire, earth return). This works much better at T & D voltages.

Sparky Joe

I'm curious what you tied, care to share?

also note that using water as a conductor breaks down the H2O molecule, where you get hydrogen bubbles at the cathode and oxygen bubbles at the anode, or maybe it was the other way around, either way you produce some very explosive gases in the air, so don't try it at home

mdshunk

Um... yeah... if you're using DC!!

Sparky Joe

Oh, duh, cathode and anode.

Thanks

Although, just remembering, The high voltage power plant transmission lines (500kV and up) are done with DC to avoid skin effect and eddy current losses.

K2

I better not. This was a long time ago when OSHA stayed east of the Mississippi and i don't care to hear any saftey lectures from the CT members on how not to bootleg power.

joasis

The cathode and anode line got me to thinking about a method i read about on using water and detergent in a bucket to strip paint and grease from parts. Seemed like it was hooked to a battery charger...the part went to the negative, and the rod in the bucket was positive. Anyone know exactly where I can find this again? I collect useless info on the chance I may get around to restoring an antique tractor I have.

__________________

CE1

Pure H2O is a poor conductor of electricity; it is the impurities in the H2O that make it a conductor. The more elements like iron, zinc, Chlorine, copper, calcium, fluoride …..That are in the H2O the better the conductivity. When you apply DC voltage/current to a cathode and anode in water (city water because it is not pure H2O) the material that the anode is made will try to dissolve in the water and deposit it on the cathode. While this happening all you would see is maybe some out gassing of some of the chemicals that are typically added to city water; no bubbling.
You would be surprised as to what is in the water you drink!

CE1

The part would be positive and the bucket would be negative. As to "Anyone know exactly where I can find this again? " see post #8.

joasis

I read an artical about doing this for stripping paint. The source voltage was 12 volts, if I remember correctly, and the bucket used was plastic, the part suspended was I guess positve, the anode would be negative...the artical was posted in yesterdays tractors in a restoration tip....and of course, I didn't save it...but it said it was a sure method to strip paint and grease, by using only detergent and water. I believe there are commercial versions of this done, and I have used electrostatic paint systems in aircraft....lots of neat techno stuff out there for the looking.

__________________

CE1

How many of you out there know the phrase ”Salting a ground”

Teetorbilt

We had a local elec. co. ground to some aluminum splash plates under the docks in a local marina. Massive electrolysis! Electrolysis attacks the least noble metal and yacht owners were replacing zinc anodes every few weeks. I don't know what happened to the ones that were left unattended for months but I can guess.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

CE1

Do you know of systems that have both an anode (zinc) and cathode (platinum maybe) for a single boat for galvanic corrosion protection? I assume that the warm salt-water environment is the worst for galvanic corrosion.

Teetorbilt

IMHO, isolation of fittings, use of engineering resins and double pole breakers are your best bet.

Mercury Marine came out with the MerCathode many years ago but it didn't seem to go very far. Their drives seemed to destruct at the same rate as those not protected.

There are a few systems out there and I really can't say that one is better than another as all of the manufacturers insulate as well and the protection system works (primarily) as a backup.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Sparky Joe

What you're desribing is how to plate something.

And I ask that you do try it at home, hold a a jar or something over both electrodes, then put a match to it. This will also work with AC though the cathode and anode will keep changing(60 times a second).

Oh and pure water does not conduct electricity, due to their being no valent electrons, though I suppose it's all relitive to what voltage you put behind it.

DaveTap

I just fixed a boat lift where the hot motor lead broke in salt water... motor stopped but never tripped a breaker. However it might have been different if there were a "neutral" connection in the water nearby.

I did the experiment for hydrogen back in eigth grade... can't belive its been 30 years and were still driving gasoline vehicles. (oops showing my age again)