Entrance Fitting

MSSI

Usually I just use the 1/2 romex connectoers to run romex into the main panel. But I am doing a project where, for neatnes sake I would like to pull 2 nice straight 12-15 wire bundles, through 1 or 2 large romex connectors like 1 1/2 I guess. Is this acceptable? or is there any other suggetions?..Thanks

mdshunk

Yes, you can do that, with some conditions. You might have to derate your cables if those sleeves are more than 24" long. Here's the section, with some red highlights that I made:


312.5 Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket Enclosures.

Conductors entering enclosures within the scope of
this article shall be protected from abrasion and shall comply
with 312.5(A) through (C).
.
.

(C) Cables.

Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured
to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.

Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall
be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure
through one or more non

flexible raceways not less
than 450 mm (18 in.) or more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length,
provided all the following conditions are met:
(a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.),
measured along the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway.
(b) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure
and does not penetrate a structural ceiling.
(c) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to
protect the cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain
accessible after installation.
(d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end
using approved means so as to prevent access to the enclosure
through the raceway.
(e) The cable sheath is continuous through the raceway
and extends into the enclosure beyond the fitting not
less than 6 mm (1⁄4 in.).
(f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at
other points in accordance with the applicable article.
(g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable
cable fill does not exceed that permitted for complete conduit
or tubing systems by Table 1 of Chapter 9 of this Code
and all applicable notes thereto.

FPN: See Table 1 in Chapter 9, including Note 9, for
allowable cable

fill in circular raceways. See
310.15(B)(2)(a) for required ampacity reductions for multiple
cables installed in a common raceway.

mdshunk

Certain panels have a "riser section" that you can install on top of the panel that will make it extra tall. It looks just like another panel, with a blank removable cover, and knockouts on top. I use these sometimes when I have to do a surface mounted panel in a commercial space that has a drop ceiling. Just add the riser section to get it above the ceiling, and bring all the cables in that riser section above the tile. Makes for a slick install.

MSSI

Thanks MD..That helps. I am going to have a wire bundle at least 3 feet long. I would like to tywrap them togeather and make a pretty bundle or 2 ging into the panel...Tywraping (6-8in appart)would be considered bundling?? So I would have to derate from like 29 amps to 20 for 12 and 19 to 15 for 14gauge?? I am still using the same size breakers then...Good thing Because I just cant seem to find a 10 or 12 amp breaker anywhere(lol)

mdshunk

I did a service call at an old church that had loads of 6 amp edison based fuses installed. I have no idea where I'd get one of them if I needed one.

You really need to check the derating rules. For a bundle such as you are proposing, you're gonna be in a world of hurt....

MSSI

I could keep them seperated but its 54 circuts. This could be one of those jobs you want to take pictures of or one you would like to cover up quickly.. I just HATE doing sloppy work..

mdshunk

How, prey tell, are you getting 54 circuits into one panel?

MSSI

Its 2 panels... 200A with 100a sub right next to it....That would be a nice trick though 54 circuts in a 40 circut panel..
Hey, while I have you here.. Must I run the sub from a 100A breaker Or is there a way to use some type of special lug from the main taps whre I can double(so to speak) the wire and run over to a main breaker sub??

mdshunk

No special "double lug" adaptor that I know of. You can use a feedthough lug panel, which has a an extra set of lugs on the bottom. You can use a "subfeed lug adaptor", which plugs on just like a breaker, but has no handle or overcurrent protection. Just a blank box with lugs on it. You can also H-Tap or split bolt onto the conductors coming into the main breaker in that first panel if you have the room to do so (doubt it). You can also feed both panels from a gutter, and tap down to both panels from that gutter. There's lots of compliant methods, but 99% of people will just use a 100 amp breaker in the first panel to feed over to an MLO panel.

MSSI

like a double lug that adapts into a single

MSSI

Awsome... Thank you again

Sparky Joe

Lugs made for 2 wires are very common and we use them all the time to do what you're doing. The lugs look the same as a normal lug except if you look down at where the wire comes in it's not just a regular circle, it's more like a smaller circle cut in next to a larger one. And why not just use 2 200 amp panels especially if they're side by side? then you could just use main lugs on both of them and everything would look a lot cleaner too.

thom

I use the combo panels, hung on the exterior. Use two 2" nipples to bring the wires from the stud cavity into the panel. In the cavity, above the entry, block behind the romex and staple to the block to give the required connection.

Instead of standard nipples I use a 2" PVC Female adapter. This eliminates the need for a bushing in the stud cavity and opens the nipple for a softer bend.

Sparky Joe

Wouldn't the FA be sticking way into your panel? And does that follow code, meaning is that what it's listed to do?

MSSI

Do you know what those double lugs are called? I hate going to the supply and trying to describe them I feel like a dope. Or I could just make up a name for them like, I have done once or twice before, so I look at them like they are stupid..."What do you mean you dont know what a chingeletta fitting is???...(lol)"
But seriously..the 100 amp panel was existing and my plan was to just swap it for a 200. It wasnt till after I after I hooked up the service side that I realized I needed them both..I know I am overcomplicateing a simple task here but, I actually have Time to make this real nice. For pictures in portfolio

Sparky Joe

I always overcomplicating simple tasks, anyone could just 'scab' stuff in but it takes a pro to think things out.

I don't know the name of the lugs, it's not a double lug being that is two seperate lugs on the same peice of aluminum and wouldn't fit width wise in a standard panel. I've always ask for them as 'those lugs that hold 2 3/0 wires(in your case) under the same lug' and of course tell them you don't mean a double lug because that's what they'll bring. Then ask him for the name and he'll probably say the same thing I did

I would draw and attach a picture but I gotta get to the ball game. Jazz are doing very well this year, sold out game tonight, hopefully I'll get a chance to finally see them win

MSSI

Here is what I am dealing with. The se cable comming out the top of the 200A(rear/"back" fed) panel is feeding the House(origional panel) that will be removed. There are a few temp hookups as well. This is in a garage that is NOW attached and you are looking towards the corner of the addition(2500 sq ft addition)

MSSI

mdshunk

Using your method, are you bringing your pipes in the back or the top of the panel? Per code, they must enter the top and be at least 18" long. If you're doing little nipples into the back of the panel, that is a violation.

Sparky Joe

I think you were saying you want to 'tie wrap' the romex's and bring them into the panel. Having romex exposed is also a violation.

And I know you said that is temp, but I hope it turns out a lot better than options I can see there.
What's with the loopty loops in the SE cable? I knew a guy that would do that and he was a sorta mentally loopty looped guy. I mean what for, are going to move the entire panel 2 inches one day?