Dead Outlet, Circuit

LNG24

OK, I am not visiting anymore and the holidays are coming up!

Last week I visited a friend and discovered plumbing problems that are being overlooked. Yesterday I visited my Dad and saw an extension cord running into his room. Turns out he plugged a heater (one of those oil ones) into an already heavily used outlet that was stuffed with all the electrical cords from the tv, dvd, stereo equipment etc. As soon as he turned it on (the second time using it there) everything went out that was plugged into the outlet.

I pulled the outlet, thinking he fried it) and I have no juice. FYI Breaker controls entire room, all other outlets are working. I tried tracing it to see where it pulls from, but came up empty. He needs to unload and move one large piece of furniture before I can check the last outlet in the room, but I know that outlet works as everything plugged into it works.

I was hoping to find a fired outlet or a fried feed from where its coming from. Since I couldn't, anyone have any ideas? I was there till 1am last night tracing this problem, but at least I got dinner from Mom

Magnettica

Hmm.... overloaded circuit tripped the breaker and when u reset the breaker the only receptacle that didn't turn back on was the one the heater was plugged into. The breaker did it's job so that's good. Perhaps there's an in-line fuse in the circuit somewhere? I doubt it but u never know.

I love it when Mom cooks meatloaf!

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LNG24

NO! Circuit Breaker NEVER tripped! Everything plugged into THAT one outlet went dead. Thus the reason he ran an extension cord aka Fire Line. I don't like extensions cords and I will add an additional outlet so he stops using those damn outlet multipliers.

OCRS

Get one of those clip on transmitters and go from outlet to outlet until you get a tone.

220/221

Typically, receps are wired from one to the next in a logical order. If you have a bad/open connection coming from A to B, A will still work but B will be dead. Pull the closest receps and check the connections in and out. The recep may also be fed from a switch box.

The recep before the dead one MAY be in an adjoining room.

In some cases, the wiring to the outlets come from the ceiling box, under the light fixture. If there is only one cable in each of this rooms receps, that will be the case and you will find the loose connection in there.

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Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

LNG24

Thanks guys,

I didn't have my wire tracing equipment with me as I was only visiting, but I'll be bringing it back for sure. I pulled every outlet and ceiling box that I could get to tracing it from the feed through the circuit. Only one I could not check was behind the big desk which he is working on emptying out for me. My biggest fear is that it does jump to another room which is where the wire trace will help. On this unscheduled "service call" I went from a bedroom out into the bathroom then down stairs to the main level bathroom and then to the office, back up to the bedroom

I'd like to carve the word Circuit into this guys forehead so he can't forget, but since the house was originally built in 1954 and remodeled a couple of time before I was even born, I'd say there were a few who got to it.

boman47k

If this recep has been replaced over the years, I would pull it, check for back stabbing and check the feed (wire) itself. If it is backstabbed, I would definitely wrap my feeds around the proper terminal screws.
If it is fed from another recep, I would check it for power in an dout too. I would also look for more backstabbing. I am no sparky, but I have had these things to happen.

Don't want to insult your knowledge, but do not assume the feeds are dead just because the recep is dose not work, ecpecially if they are backstabbed!

Celtic

There is NOTHING wrong with back-stabbing receptacles.

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boman47k

Maybe not, if you are a sparky, I can't argue the point with you. I can say I do not trust them.

Celtic

Actually, I am a licensed EC in NJ ...there is not much demand for a Professional Pie Taster ~ so you do what ya gotta do


The evils and merits of back stabbing devices has ranged on since the beginning of time...not wishing to start that debate here in LNG's thread, we can continue in a new thread ~ but ONLY after you have read all 11 pages over here:
Common mistake: Failure to backstab receptacles

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boman47k

Heheh, finished here.
I think I have read those pages at some point, maybe not all of them. May revisit them.

Back to regular sheduled programming.

I would still check any connections and not assume the feeds are not live.

TrblShooter

In my experience...usually the last working outlet in a room is where the 'break" is...meaning the wiring going into, say the out you can't get to is fine, so the outlet works...it's the wiring leaving that outlet that is either broken, disconnected, loose or burnt out.
Have you tried banging on the wall above the outlet you can't get too with just a lamp plugged into the outlet that isn't working? Sometimes if it is a loose connection this will shake the wires a little and make the lamp come on and tell you that's where the problem lies...but not always.

Celtic

I don't which side of the stabbing fence you're on...it does make a good read

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boman47k

Maybe I should consider running for some kind of office!

Celtic

Well you better hurry your ass up ~ the polls are closing!

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boman47k

Damn, my life story! Day late, dollar short.

Winchester

sometimes backstabbed receptacles aren't done properly or sometimes the wires do come loose.

I put in a lot of receptacles, and I backstab 99% of the time, so I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm just saying that in my time I have found a lot of backstabbed receptacles that have had loose wires (not from me)

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Ryan

JamesNLA

I love stabbed recepts. I make great money off them. Please keep stabbin, because I'm going to tell your customer about pig tails and charge a boat load of money to cut out your stabbed devices!!So thanks!!

To the OP....Basically there is an open. It is possible that branch passes through a ceiling box on it's way down to the wall recepts...but I doubt it for what you have described. Since you only have one rec that is out, start there and visually inspect as well as test the leads...not the recept. That circa of wiring should be non-grounded and daisy chained like mentioned. When the device is used as a means of connect you are relying on the device to keep your connection. With the device having two screw terminals on each side you have the possibility to have a failure IN BETWEEN those two terminals. Weather it is on the hot side or the neutral side needs to be determined. THere is a bridge between the two screw terminals....a tab if you will. And I have seen them act in essence like a fuse. When the current becomes too great for that connecting tab to withstand it can sever, thus opening up the circuit. Furthurmore if you test say the bottom plug of the recept and find that it has power it can be understood that you will go in to the next rec...meanwhile the top recept is powerless. You ought to test them both. If you have an old stab-loc panel or the like it's obviously a fire hazard and should be upgraded to something that will trip when it should. Should you find all the recepts intact, you may explor checking continuity, but that is a pain in the arse and it's pretty rare that a conductor breaks mid-run....stranger things have happened. Good luck, don't kill yourself or your parents!

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Stewy

Had an issue like this once, one outlet in a room was not working and it must have been added at a later date then the others because it was on a circuit with an outside receptacle which was GFI and had tripped. Pushed the button and back in business.

boman47k

Yeah, what he said.