Crappy Work

Bkessler

Has any one who is involved in service ever kept track of how much of there work is repairing what i call Non electricians work, like home owner putting there own plugs in or the infamous " oh my gardener did that" and even just those really bad electricains out there who have never even picked up a code book or stepped inside of a classroom. This month after a quick tally I ve billed out over 10G in basically repair work from the non electrician. And we can always start a new unhandiman thread! I am starting this thread because what I saw last night, some handiman did a real number on an elderly couple. To me it's the same as robbing a bank.

mdshunk

I go back and fourth on whether I think trade licensing is a good idea. Then, I run across something so bad that I know exactly why we have trade licensing. Since I do a lot of service, it's almost an every day thing. I just got done rewiring a farmhouse this morning that was previously "rewired" by the former owner. There were literally hundreds of code violations, and at least two dozen serious iminent hazards. It's frustrating as hell. It's pretty easy to troubleshoot work that was originally done by an electrician. When you have to troubleshoot DIY work, throw everything you know out the window and expect the unexpected. You can rack up a lot of unnecessary time making DIY work safe. If there's one single thing that makes me really angry, it's fixing up bad (recent) DIY work that's causing me to put extra time in on what could be a simple job.

K2

I see plenty of crapola in the schools I work in done by the original electricians. Example:

I was above the grid over the swimming pool and the 30 lb. remote halide ballast were either hanging from some bailing wire or sitting unsecured on a beam flange. I know it was the original guys because the ballast were dated 1988, same year the school was built.

I could go on but I'll just say above ceiling line anything goes in our schools.

I'll also say that Colorado has a yucked up system for school building permits and inspections. It comes under some under staffed state agency and the local inspectors are not allowed in.

My favorite was the Middle school where if you sparked a couple of wires you would trip the main breaker. I refused to work there if there was a sporting event going on. I think they finally got that one fixed. I'm still extremely puzzled as to what might have caused that.

DaveTap

Over the years I've seen a wide variety of wiring some good some horribly bad... the scary thing is the absolute worst and most dangerous were done by union electricians. When doing HVAC or EDM installations they have miswired transformers, bypassed or not installed required safety devices or disconnects and probably caused the worst electrical fires in the city.
The problem with licensing is it varies too much between towns or states... in Chicago supervising electricians are rarely on site and have dozens of monkeys doing terrible work... then when I walk up and mention that something isn't per code they condescendingly ask "well are you an electrician?" to which I gladly reply "I'm both a Licensed Supervising Electrician and a General Electrical Contractor... which although it usually shuts them up doesn't often correct their work... until I go to the owner or GC with a printout of code violations, pictures, and a voided warranty card. Since the cheapest equipment I worked on cost over $500K they usually paid attention.

I get a lot of work from do it yourselfers and handyman reworks. I did a job last year where a home owner had a first floor garage converted... handyman moved the main disconnect... replaced the original 2"EMT between main and panel with PVC (removing ground from the panel in the process because a plumber had installed a water softener or filter in PVC years before) Their original call was because when they had replaced a dryer the new one wouldn't work then they mentioned getting shocked by touching a switch in the garage. Quick test found that ground was 120v to neutral. (Dryer wouldn't start because it needed neutral for timer). Further searching revealed that outlets in garage used stab-ins but unused terminal screws weren't tightened and one touched the metal box. When I went to pull the new ECG to the panel pushed 50' of fish tape into 20' conduit... he hadn't connected or glued the 2" PVC together... so I had to rip down part of the new ceiling and found a notched floor joist cut almost thru. I replaced the joist and installed new PVC, pulled the wires back in with a #4 ECG... Customer then hired me to re-model and rewire second apartment adding new service, laundry room and deck.

Sorry I can't go into more detail right now but I have to go trouble- shoot an install done last spring by a big local electrical contractor on a 7 million dollar house. So far that contractor has netted me about $20 grand... I'll be interested to see what his guys did wrong this time.

DaveTap

Was it a GFCI main? I know when I worked for Meijer's they had some problems with a brand new SquareD tripping about every 2 weeks for no apparent reason. We had the generator trailer parked there for a month just in case.

mdshunk

There is a practice called "Coordination of overcurrent protection" and "coordination of ground fault protection". When these installation practices are not observed, you can easily trip the main before a branch breaker. This phenomenon normally only shows up on commercial installations. If you have a branch fault on a circuit that is fed by a heavily loaded thermal magnetic breaker, that feeder breaker will trip. Electronic (programmable) feeder and main breakers in the MDP is the normal cure (or prevention).

Sparky Joe

It's called "selective coordination"

I guess I should've read on, MD said the same thing

It was explained to me that the first breaker in the system sees the 'fault' first, though that doesn't make sense because it's an AC system and breakers don't respond until about 5 cycles