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Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions

 
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:23 PM   #41
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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That’s fine until Juan’s construction files for bankruptcy and goes “out of business” then a week later Juan opens Jose’ brothers construction...

See it all the time up here, all the shoddy work I see in the city by immigrants from both Mexico, Poland and the Eastern European countries that don’t speak a lick of English

Good luck holding them liable, but hey they go in there and flip a house and cover everything up with drywall, put a new Can lights in with marble countertops and subway tile backsplash and you’re good to go...easy moneymaker

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Old 11-25-2017, 03:24 PM   #42
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Actually 90 percent of my builds have no code. So therefore the code book is irreverent. That's why we have engineers.

A building inspector has no authority to trump an engineers calculated design. So the inspector believing my joists are undersized matters none as long as it was called out by an engineer.

My point is an inspector on the jobsite to inspect something else has no business saying joists are undersized unless he has the plans in front of him and there was a diversion. Therefore that would actually be a crime if someone gets hurt.

So to say an inspector walked right by something that was built incorrect is completely plausible.


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When you submit engineered plans do they do a review? Can the AHJ's engineer override the engineer of record? Just wondering how well they look at a stamped set of plans.

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Old 11-25-2017, 03:36 PM   #43
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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When you submit engineered plans do they do a review? Can the AHJ's engineer override the engineer of record? Just wondering how well they look at a stamped set of plans.



Tom

If I submit engineered plans I can't imagine the plan checker checking all the calcs to see if my engineer made a mathematical error.

I've never in my life had an engineers drawings overridden by an AHJ. in fact one of the reasons for engineering is to take liability away from the city.

Engineering isn't an opinion. It's the calculations. How they get to the numbers isn't typically a concern, it will either carry the loads or not. Now if the city requires 50 psf and my engineer designs it for 30 psf then there's going to be a correction. But I've never had an engineer not know the requirements for the area being designed for. In fact most even know the soil type for the area.




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Old 11-25-2017, 03:40 PM   #44
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I'm not trying to argue with you Tom, just pointing out every area is different. Especially here in siesmic country, where prescriptive Constructon is a rarity.


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Old 11-25-2017, 03:50 PM   #45
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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I'm not trying to argue with you Tom, just pointing out every area is different. Especially here in siesmic country, where prescriptive Constructon is a rarity.


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Never thought at any time you were arguing with me.

I was just wondering how well they went over the stamped submitted plans.

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Old 11-25-2017, 03:51 PM   #46
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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What is your proposal?
Can we go with the canned/standard answer I hear from others----you have to educate the customers....

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Old 11-25-2017, 04:24 PM   #47
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Can we go with the canned/standard answer I hear from others----you have to educate the customers....



Tom

Time for a “Holmes inspection”?? Lol


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Old 11-25-2017, 05:09 PM   #48
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


It's totally different here. As long as a building is less than 3500 sq. ft. engineered drawings aren't required. If you use I-joists or trusses, then the supplier provides engineering for their system. Unfortunately in the past the building inspectors didn't necessarily do their jobs, and I know of hundreds of homes that have been issued a C.O. with obvious code violations. The townships seems mostly concerned with the tax base.

So yes, I find it irritating that a permit is paid for requiring X number of inspections and yet the inspectors aren't liable.

I also understand how strict they are in areas such as California and Florida.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:24 PM   #49
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on.

For me the point is this: IF INSPECTORS AREN'T RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE IN ANY WAY, WHY ARE HOMEOWNERS PAYING FOR THEM?

I'm done.
See your side or agree with your side? I always hear this when someone doesn't make a convincing enough argument and someone doesn't agree. I have my view and opinion. Unless you can tear it completely down, I won't ever agree with you. I might agree that you have a valid point, but that doesn't mean it changed my mind.
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:32 AM   #50
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on.

......
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.....Unless you can tear it completely down, I won't ever agree with you. I might agree that you have a valid point, but that doesn't mean it changed my mind.
imo, you just made the point for johnson.
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Old 11-26-2017, 02:58 PM   #51
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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imo, you just made the point for johnson.
I agree. His point isn't that people don't listen to him or seeing his side. His point is people don't agree with him. I can see the point of some SJW BLM arguments, doesn't mean I will ever agree with them.

The same could be said of anyone on here. None one on here has 100% admitted they were mistaken or wrong every time. I would even go as far to say some will never admit that to certain other members (myself) no matter how wrong they know they are.

My point is if someone can't defend their position to the point of convincing others, that's not the other persons fault, nor do we need a safespace for them to feel better about their weak ass argument.

What's also missed is the long term effect of a good heals dug in debate. Even though someone may not get instant gratification for winning someone over, if they have made some solid points, it can't help but permeate through to the other person and effect their judgement down the road.
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:29 PM   #52
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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I agree. His point isn't that people don't listen to him or seeing his side. His point is people don't agree with him. I can see the point of some SJW BLM arguments, doesn't mean I will ever agree with them.

The same could be said of anyone on here. None one on here has 100% admitted they were mistaken or wrong every time. I would even go as far to say some will never admit that to certain other members (myself) no matter how wrong they know they are.

My point is if someone can't defend their position to the point of convincing others, that's not the other persons fault, nor do we need a safespace for them to feel better about their weak ass argument.

What's also missed is the long term effect of a good heals dug in debate. Even though someone may not get instant gratification for winning someone over, if they have made some solid points, it can't help but permeate through to the other person and effect their judgement down the road.
And you just keep making my point. I never said that you did. I did go back and check to make sure that I didn't say it, which was almost pointless because it's not something I'd say. At this point we are supposed to get into a big back and forth about what I said, what you said, blah blah blah until it degrades to the point of name calling and what not. As stated before I don't care to waste my time on that sort of thing, so I'll just jump straight to the end.

I wouldn't hire you as a contractor because you refuse to even consider any idea that is not your own. When faced with a simple statement such as "This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on." you twist it to back up your ****ed up version of reality. No matter what proof you are shown, you will continue to believe that you are right. Trust me, I've met people like you and you won't give up. I'll bet you still think that voting for Trump was a good idea.

I repeat:

"This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on."

I'm Done.
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:45 PM   #53
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


So with all this back and forth where did the OP go? Lol

Here is my guesses....

1) he applied and paid the $20 fee for the union apprenticeship and didn’t pass the test

2) he tried to get licensed in the city of Chicago and found out it was much harder and more expensive than he thought

3) he was working on a job minding his own business, and the union found him and started giving him some chit

4) he did some work in Chicago that was not up to code and the inspectors caught him doing unauthorized/unlicensed work requiring him to tear it all out and start over

Which scenario do you think it was that caused him to go online and bitch about the union??Haha


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Old 11-26-2017, 08:18 PM   #54
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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And you just keep making my point. I never said that you did. I did go back and check to make sure that I didn't say it, which was almost pointless because it's not something I'd say.

Then what evidence do you have that someone didn't see your point. What was the indicator?

At this point we are supposed to get into a big back and forth about what I said, what you said, blah blah blah until it degrades to the point of name calling and what not.

I don't name call. No need for it.

As stated before I don't care to waste my time on that sort of thing, so I'll just jump straight to the end.

Then move along. Why waste your time telling people you aren't going to waste your time.

I wouldn't hire you as a contractor because you refuse to even consider any idea that is not your own.

Never said that. You have no evidence that is my position. I actually think I said that you would need to tear my down first. It's the same way anyone is. Everyone thinks there way is the right way, why else would you be doing it that way? If someone presents a well thought out case for their way, I have no issue considering, in fact that is exactly what I said.

When faced with a simple statement such as "This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on." you twist it to back up your ****ed up version of reality.

No twisting, I saw no evidence of signs of anyone not seeing your point. What I saw was someone not agreeing with you.

No matter what proof you are shown, you will continue to believe that you are right.

Not true at all. But it's your way out. Put the blame for you not being able to communicate to the point of convincing on me.


Trust me, I've met people like you and you won't give up. I'll bet you still think that voting for Trump was a good idea.

You have never met me. You don't know me. You have interacted with me online less than three times. And what does voting for Trump have anything to do with this conversation? But I do still think it was a great idea, unless you are swayed by the MSM and believe their constant lies. I think the lowest unemployment rate,
highest consumer confidence and the markets setting records is proof enough. Not to mention the appointment of a fantastic Supreme court judge and the ridding of many (eventually all) of Obama's EO's and dumb regulations.


I repeat:

"This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on."

I'm Done.
Then be done. Stop telling people you don't want to waste your time. It's silly. I am still waiting to understand how I ,
or anyone else didn't "see your side". I saw it and thought it lacking.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:26 PM   #55
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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So with all this back and forth where did the OP go? Lol

Here is my guesses....

1) he applied and paid the $20 fee for the union apprenticeship and didn’t pass the test

2) he tried to get licensed in the city of Chicago and found out it was much harder and more expensive than he thought

3) he was working on a job minding his own business, and the union found him and started giving him some chit

4) he did some work in Chicago that was not up to code and the inspectors caught him doing unauthorized/unlicensed work requiring him to tear it all out and start over

Which scenario do you think it was that caused him to go online and bitch about the union??Haha


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My old business partner was a local 134. When we started our business he left the union (too constricting on what we could and couldn't do). A few years into our business he took and passed the Chicago exam.

I hold the same feelings about unions in Chicago. I get commercial code, but there is no reason conduit should be required in residential. It should be preference. 90% of the country (I am exaggerating a bit) uses Romex.

No reason to assume he has a bad experience with unions in order to have a negative opinion of them. It's just dismissive and not constructive to the conversation.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:40 PM   #56
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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My old business partner was a local 134. When we started our business he left the union (too constricting on what we could and couldn't do). A few years into our business he took and passed the Chicago exam.



I hold the same feelings about unions in Chicago. I get commercial code, but there is no reason conduit should be required in residential. It should be preference. 90% of the country (I am exaggerating a bit) uses Romex.



No reason to assume he has a bad experience with unions in order to have a negative opinion of them. It's just dismissive and not constructive to the conversation.


Ok well when the title of the 1 topic that he post is that the Chicago codes are made by the union isnt exactly constructive either. The code is the code, if he doesn’t agree with it maybe he should use his knowledge and experience and petition the city to change it instead of crying it about it on a contractor forum

I do agree with you that conduit in residential is old school and probably not necessary but as you know most of the towns around the city still require it...it’s not just a city thing and in suburban residential it is definitely not a union thing either since residential is pretty much all non union nowadays


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Old 11-27-2017, 12:06 AM   #57
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Someone should be along shortly to explain that you can’t use nm cable because of the mutant rats.

Is it the same in NYC?
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:08 AM   #58
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Ok well when the title of the 1 topic that he post is that the Chicago codes are made by the union isnt exactly constructive either. The code is the code, if he doesn’t agree with it maybe he should use his knowledge and experience and petition the city to change it instead of crying it about it on a contractor forum

He vented, he didn't whine. The added inflection or tone is on you. Your filter read it that way. I simply read someone venting about how ridiculous codes can be.

I do agree with you that conduit in residential is old school and probably not necessary but as you know most of the towns around the city still require it...it’s not just a city thing and in suburban residential it is definitely not a union thing either since residential is pretty much all non union nowadays

Yes, most towns still require it, but not in all situations.
I can run BX in Naperville and we are not too far. Some parts of Naperville, unincorporated, can use Romex. I get the frustration that it seems to be arbitrary. Houses aren't burning down in epidemic proportions around the country.

Towns around Chicago adopted their codes. It's also not unusual for new residential construction to be union. Why else would unions break up a Pulte meeting in MO several years ago?


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My point is that unions do in fact affect change in code to make it more suitable for their business model. Making it less skilled and easier for others to compete isn't their usual operating method.
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:33 AM   #59
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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....
I hold the same feelings about unions in Chicago. I get commercial code, but there is no reason conduit should be required in residential. It should be preference. 90% of the country (I am exaggerating a bit) uses Romex.

...
I heard its in the code they don't allow cows inside Chicago city limits.

Or anyone named O'Leary.
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:13 AM   #60
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I heard its in the code they don't allow cows inside Chicago city limits.

Or anyone named O'Leary.
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