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Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions

 
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:02 PM   #21
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Also There's no such thing as typical, when it comes to building out here anyway. Joists that are fine in one place may not be in another. Inspectors come to inspect something else and don't go back and research an address to find out what was engineered, or approved by the plan checker. So just because he didn't do that for the whole house, in no way makes it his fault.


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To start with, show me where I said it was the inspectors fault? Typed there was an inspector problem, never said it was their fault.

At no point did I infer/state the contractor should be held harmless.

Here stamped/approved plans must be on site for the inspector to reference as they are inspecting. I've had inspectors pick up the plans and go over them item by item as they were doing their inspection. Happened to me in Denver also, inspector went over the plans, items, and reinspected already past items.

This incident was a conglomeration of mistakes and oversights.

For the record, I've had inspectors pass work done and never stepped foot in the area I was working on. One did it right in front of the customer.

Tom
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:14 PM   #22
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Is it the inspectors fault they missed the undersized joists and supports? I know those are visible on this open porch.

Tom


I didn't say you said that. You asked me I answered.


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Old 11-24-2017, 10:19 PM   #23
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Actually not according to the article. It may have triggered it, but it wasn't the cause of the collapse.

The deck wasn't even to existing code. So there was no code problem there was a contractor problem.




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Quote:
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I didn't say you said that. You asked me I answered.


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Never stated you said it--pointed out it was mentioned in the section of the article you quoted in your post which is the first quoted above (#11 on page 1, referenced by number so you can go back to it. It does not show in the quote above).

I ask again, should the inspector have caught the deficiencies which were visible, quoted from the article? I understand the screw length would not have been visible.

Tom
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:34 PM   #24
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Never stated you said it--pointed out it was mentioned in the section of the article you quoted in your post which is the first quoted above (#11 on page 1, referenced by number so you can go back to it. It does not show in the quote above).

I ask again, should the inspector have caught the deficiencies which were visible, quoted from the article? I understand the screw length would not have been visible.

Tom

Not neccessarily. He can not look at something. They don't look at everything, doesn't mean he did anything wrong.




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Old 11-24-2017, 10:38 PM   #25
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


My point is its not incumbent on an inspector to check everything, however it's incumbent on the contractor to check everything, who's ultimately responsible.


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Old 11-24-2017, 10:51 PM   #26
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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My point is its not incumbent on an inspector to check everything, however it's incumbent on the contractor to check everything, who's ultimately responsible.


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Why have any inspectors? What is their job if not inspect the work being done?

Again, I've had them at both ends of how they do their job spectrum. I prefer the ones who do a very thorough job. The ones that go little or nothing aggravate me to no end.

I believe if the hold harmless rule was removed from municipalities and inspectors it would make our life easier and the trades better. Think of all the crappy "contractors" it would weed out.

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Old 11-24-2017, 11:04 PM   #27
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Why have any inspectors? What is their job if not inspect the work being done?

Again, I've had them at both ends of how they do their job spectrum. I prefer the ones who do a very thorough job. The ones that go little or nothing aggravate me to no end.

I believe if the hold harmless rule was removed from municipalities and inspectors it would make our life easier and the trades better. Think of all the crappy "contractors" it would weed out.

Tom


I didn't say they don't inspect. I said they don't always look at everything. That's exactly why consumers need to hire a contractor that doesn't need to rely on an inspector. Or the HO can trust their contractor without the inspector catching it all.


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Old 11-24-2017, 11:39 PM   #28
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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I didn't say they don't inspect. I said they don't always look at everything. That's exactly why consumers need to hire a contractor that doesn't need to rely on an inspector. Or the HO can trust their contractor without the inspector catching it all.


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That's why I would like to see all the inspectors be very thorough, so the consumer gets what they pay for. All the permits here have charges on them for the inspection.

Think about how many contractors would be gone (or have to improve their practices) if the inspectors were serious about what they are paid to do.

Tom
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:20 AM   #29
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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That's why I would like to see all the inspectors be very thorough, so the consumer gets what they pay for. All the permits here have charges on them for the inspection.



Think about how many contractors would be gone (or have to improve their practices) if the inspectors were serious about what they are paid to do.



Tom

I don't need an inspector to be thorough. When my customers hire me they don't care.

In fact, it's usually some 30 year old kid that's wet behind the ears. I've taught inspectors a thing or 2. I don't EVER give much credence to them. I assume they are all lacking.

Our permits don't have inspection charges. It's all inclusive. I've had an inspector tell me to just take a picture. They know me well enough to get away with that.



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Old 11-25-2017, 12:24 AM   #30
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


Inspectors here don't check for code violations as much as checking that the plans are adhered to. Even if he thought the joists should be a different size, he doesn't have the authority to make me change it. All my jobs require engineering.


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Old 11-25-2017, 04:49 AM   #31
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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That's why I would like to see all the inspectors be very thorough, so the consumer gets what they pay for. All the permits here have charges on them for the inspection.

Think about how many contractors would be gone (or have to improve their practices) if the inspectors were serious about what they are paid to do.

Tom
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:17 AM   #32
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


Unfortunately inspectors are usually held harmless if they do not see, overlook, or ignore deficiencies in my area.

If they were held liable it might be a different story
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:18 AM   #33
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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I don't need an inspector to be thorough. When my customers hire me they don't care.

In fact, it's usually some 30 year old kid that's wet behind the ears. I've taught inspectors a thing or 2. I don't EVER give much credence to them. I assume they are all lacking.

Our permits don't have inspection charges. It's all inclusive. I've had an inspector tell me to just take a picture. They know me well enough to get away with that.



Mike.
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None of this is about you, me or the vast majority of the members on this forum. If all the contractors worked to "our" caliber inspectors could be done away with. For that matter building departments could be closed.

By checking that the plans were adhered to, the inspector did/is check[ing] to make sure your build is up to code.

Tom
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:14 AM   #34
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on.

For me the point is this: IF INSPECTORS AREN'T RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE IN ANY WAY, WHY ARE HOMEOWNERS PAYING FOR THEM?

I'm done.
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:23 AM   #35
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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This is exactly why I don't go to great pains to argue my points. It's a complete waste of time if somebody isn't willing to see another side other than the one that they are on.

For me the point is this: IF INSPECTORS AREN'T RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE IN ANY WAY, WHY ARE HOMEOWNERS PAYING FOR THEM?

I'm done.
Around here it is to generate money
example- If I want to replace 100 sf of drywall in a 250 sf room I need a permit. If I want to replace 500 sf of drywall in a 3000 sf room I do not need a permit.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:20 AM   #36
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


From the IRC:

Section 102: PURPOSE, Article 102.1: Minimum Standards.
The purpose of this code is to provide minimum standards for the protection of life, limb, health, property, environment, and for the safety and welfare of the consumer, general public, and the owners and occupants of residential buildings regulated by this code.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:55 AM   #37
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


Right. But if I **** up it's all on you.
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Old 11-25-2017, 01:27 PM   #38
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


Actually 90 percent of my builds have no code. So therefore the code book is irreverent. That's why we have engineers.

A building inspector has no authority to trump an engineers calculated design. So the inspector believing my joists are undersized matters none as long as it was called out by an engineer.

My point is an inspector on the jobsite to inspect something else has no business saying joists are undersized unless he has the plans in front of him and there was a diversion. Therefore that would actually be a crime if someone gets hurt.

So to say an inspector walked right by something that was built incorrect is completely plausible.


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Old 11-25-2017, 01:37 PM   #39
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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Right. But if I **** up it's all on you.
If by that you mean when all is said and done - blame still falls on the contractor - I'm good with that.
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:19 PM   #40
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Re: Chicago Codes Are Made By Unions


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If by that you mean when all is said and done - blame still falls on the contractor - I'm good with that.


That’s fine until Juan’s construction files for bankruptcy and goes “out of business” then a week later Juan opens Jose’ brothers construction...

See it all the time up here, all the shoddy work I see in the city by immigrants from both Mexico, Poland and the Eastern European countries that don’t speak a lick of English

Good luck holding them liable, but hey they go in there and flip a house and cover everything up with drywall, put a new Can lights in with marble countertops and subway tile backsplash and you’re good to go...easy moneymaker




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