Bank Lighting Updates

kurtdesign1

Howdy! I've recently come across this site and think it might be a place to find answers on this question. I'm thinking lighting reps or electrical engineers may be able to help but anyone with input can chime in.

I'm currently looking for preliminary info on replacing 30 year old electrical fixtures. I have (40) 2'x4' four-light F40CW RS fluorescent fixtures and (65) 8" downlight/spot type Quartz T-4 250w surface mounted fixtures. If I was to replace these fixtures with high-efficiency units from today, what would an expected ROI be? Assume $0.10/KwH
Yes, this is vague. Yes, the answer is unreliable. I am only looking for examples based on what is available in today's market. This is where I really don't have specific knowledge.
Thanks-

Feel free to email for more info or to discuss:
Craig@jbarchitecture.com

mdshunk

You list yourself as LEED certified, but can't figure the ROI on this very popular upfit? Are you a student, perhaps?

acrwc10

OH, SNAP.

Bubbles

2 months

Bubbles

http://www.lightsearch.com/resources...rofitecon.html

here ya go

kurtdesign1

Thanks for your incredibly thoughtful response. I'll look for your posts in the future.
Perhaps I wouldn't appear such a "student" if I intuitively knew the electrical usage of specific downlights & fluorescent fixtures available in a sector of construction I know little about. THANKS!
Perhaps that was why I asked the question in the first place.


NO, I'm not a student, you

kurtdesign1

Thanks for the resource, sir. I appreciate it greatly. Unfortunately I am not sure of the anticipated electrical usage for the proposed fixtures. I'm still in the proposal stage of the project.

K2

I'm not sure of the downlights but an old four lamp likely has 2 ballast at 1.5 amps each @ 120 volt or .75 amp at 277. You should be able to replace that fixture with a 2 lamp t-8 and get the same or better foot candles/lumens with one ballast drawing .55 amps or .27 amps.
So on one fixture you should be saving about 2.3 amps per hour@120 volt=
2.3 x120=276 watts per hour per fixture x40 fixtures=11040 watts /hour= 1.1 kw x10 cents per kw=11 cents per hour x 12 hours per day= 1.32 dollars per day x 300 days = about 400 bucks a year. That's how I figure it anyway. The real savings comes when you do 10,000 fixtures.

Also 30 years ago was the cut off for pcb ballast, (haz mat), so if you have pcb's it could be a good selling point to get rid of them. Be sure to allow a few bucks for proper disposal of pcb's.

kurtdesign1

Something I was not aware of. Thanks.
I'll make a note of possible removal requirements.

mrmike

I Don't know what ROI would be but you will have a helluva big savings by getting rid of those energy-sucking Quartz fixtures. I would look into replacing them with T5 High out Flourescents or Regular T-5 Low bay Retrofits. You will save enough on 65 of them to pay for them pretty fast. You probably should consult a Lighting engineer so that you get the right amount of Lumens & other factors for your situation...........

JamesNLA

Perhaps.

It's obvious you know little to nothing about what you are attempting to get into. This is simple commercial lighting and you are obviously getting into something you shouldn't. I guess anybody can be an electrician these days as long as they say so..... Do not insult other members on this forum. Take that shyit and move along.

__________________
"....And then we all switch places when I ring the bell"
-Adrock

K2

Oh geez... MD can take it.. he dishes enough out..

JamesNLA

I know exactly how he dishes it out...that's not the issue. It's with retards who come on here with their 2 posts and start talking smack.

__________________
"....And then we all switch places when I ring the bell"
-Adrock

mdshunk

Right. After all, this is a dirt simple refit. Nothing exotic about it, and certainly something a LEED certified guy should be able to figure out in his sleep. Just doesn't add up. My response to an ordinary GC would have been much different than my response to this guy who claims to be a LEED certified man. The ROI he asked about in the original post was simple math. MATH! It wasn't even a technical question. He wanted us to do math for him. I'm wondering how you become LEED certified (a pretty tough cert) without knowing how to do math.

K2

Well anyway i'd like to welcome Kurtdesign to the forum. It's always rough for the first 50 posts or so untill you settle in.

kurtdesign1

A fair assessment. Here's the reason someone with little knowledge of commercial lighting is asking the question: Business. Yup, that's it in a nutshell. Times are tough. The residential market my firm typically works in is all but gone & we're branching out. Since I AM a LEED AP the Principal architect at my firm asked me to research this info without contacting any consultants, for a new type of project we're bidding (that being commercial retrofits).

We have to start somewhere when you're diversifying workload and this is where we are. I've got Cooper lighting catalogs & have seen more fixtures than I can shake a stick at in there. The local salesman is on a longer schedule out for meetings than my schedule would allow so I had no choice but to seek other avenues to find out what I'm looking for.

I, personally, am not going to be doing the architectural work if we get the job, nor will I take this information & put it right on a set of CDs. I needed quick info for an approximation used as an exhibit in our proposal. Simple as that.

Oh, don't expect me to bow to you because you've been here longer. Everyone is an equal until proven otherwise. Now that I've hopefully clarified the problems you had with what I asked for initially, I would trust you would let this go & stop acting the bully. There's no need for it. For what it's worth, I have no problem explaining myself. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with someone insinuating I'm a liar (LEED AP - send me an email if you'd like the personal info to verify my accreditation at USGBC.org) and insulting my intelligence without first trying to at least find out why you think I'd knowingly deceive you all (retard, student, math). Chances are, when something written online is coming across wrong, it's misinterpreted. Also, this wasn't about math. Without knowing what comparable fixtures were, it's impossible to have the correct info required to determine ROI. This isn't even addressing the fact that I wasn't "talking smack" without provocation. I was defending myself only. As I hope my other posts show in this thread, my intention is to come, share knowledge, gain knowledge and to participate in another healthy online community.No, I'm not nieve, I moderate & participate on many other message boards.

BTW, I understand you weren't the only one saying these things about me. I'm just addressing it all in this one message.

mdshunk

ROI=installed cost of new fixtures / cost to operate old fixtures per month-cost to operate new fixtures for a month.

Math!

Consider a 12 hour day, 7days a week at 10cents a kwh:

An existing 4-lamp F40T12 fixture costs about 5.88 a month to operate.
The typical replacement, 3-lamp F32T8 costs about 3.72 a month to operate.
Figure the installed cost of the new fixture and lamps, when doing them in bulk at about 80 bucks each, the ROI is 37 months.

Math!

An existing 65watt R lamp costs about 54 cents a month to operate.
The typical replacement 16watt CF R lamp costs about 14 cents a month to operate.
Figure the installed cost, when doing them in bulk in the existing fixture, at 12 dollars each, the ROI is 29 months.

Math!

The replacement for your 250W quartz fixtures is a fixture with dual 26 watt PL lamps. You can do your own math on that one. The way to select the replacement fixture is to figure the lumen output of what you have from a lamp catalog and match that up with the lumen output of a fluorescent fixture. Heck, even a metal halide, if you want. I'd probably do MH if you still want the spot effect.

K2

And of course there may be some energy credits/rebates/incentives still around.