Apprenticeship

cueitup02

Is an apprenticeship always part of a Union?

if i plan to eventually become an Electrical Contractor, should i join a labor union or not?

my state does not require a license for journeyman so im trying to decide whether or not i should take a 4-5 year apprenticeship if the apprenticeship wont benefit me. But also im afraid that if i move to a different state n not have a license then i will be screwed.

my ultimate goal is to eventually become a EC. but i dont know which route to take.

should i just go work as an electrician helper while going to college and get a degree in business instead of going the whole apprenticeship route which last 4-5 years?

im 22 , single, no kids


thank you guys for reading....

Speedy Petey

An official apprenticeship is a rare thing outside the union.
IMO if your goal is to be self-employed as an electrical contractor then either join the union and get your years in, or work for a few good contractors and get the experience that way. The union will send to to school, a lot of school. A portion of which is useless in the "real world" of contracting.
Also, the union is not what you would call well rounded. Most every guy I know that went through got his balance of experience doing side work. For the most part, the union will have you doing the same thing for a year, than another thing for another year, and so on.

My advice is to go the private contractor route. Also go to school on your own, possibly someone you work for will kick something in to cover the costs.

Having a license in one state is often useless in another. Meaning nto having a J-man license will not screw you if you move. Most states do not even have low level licensing from what I have seen.

In NY you need 5 years under a real contractor to even take the Master test. NO other certificaton is required.
So be patient. This is NOT a quick process, and IMO 5 years is NOT nearly enough time to consider being an independent contractor. You simply cannot learn enough and get enough real world expereince in that short a time.

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mdshunk

The only real apprenticeship program other than the union (IBEW) is the one offered by the Independant Electrical Contractor's Association. It's geographic coverage is spotty, however.

I agree with Speedy. Work for a private contractor. Several of them. Many of them. Do a few years of residential, a few years or commercial, a little industrial, a little outside electrical work, a few (or a lot) of years of service work. Somewhere in there take whatever exams you become elegible to take (simply because of your time in the trade) and collect licenses.

As Speedy warns, just because you've managed to collect a license or certification or two, doesn't by any means mean you're ready to strike out on your own. Once you've reached a point in the trade where nothing you've seen in a couple of years seems new or surprises you, then you're ready. Get a broad exposure to all types of electrical work. Take charge of that on your own. Once one employer's typical workload gets "stale", jump to another EC who does a little different type of work.

It's reasonably easy to get your foot in the door at a larger EC. Just show up every day and don't be an idiot. Grow from there.

Modernelectric

I take issue with if nothing surprises you for a couple of years. The most important trait of a true master electrician is the realization that you never learn everything or have seen everything. a true master is a problem solver. anything else is just a helper unfortunately some helpers have 20 years experience

mdshunk

Of course things will still surprise you. Naturally, you should always be learning. That was the best way that I could briefly explain it to a layperson. Don't get so wound up. Once he's in the trade, he'll realize what you've pointed out. I just wanted to encourage him to wait it out and gain the maximium amount of experience while still ringing someone else's time clock as possible. Nothing much has surprised me in years, until I started taking on a little bit of line construction. Now, it's like a whole new world opened up. Kinda nice.

K2

Just go to work or school with your goal fairly close to the top of your priorities and it will happen. Bla bla bla. Sometimes it happens much much slower than you think it should and sometimes it happens faster. The biggie is if you want it to happen it will.

HUDSONVALLEYEXT

dude you got to do your time get a job in the trade and save all your paystubs to prove you time in the trade...you can go with getting a new helper job for a non-union contractor. Here you will start off with low pay and you will work with a lot of druggies that can't teach you shi*** but getting your time in so you can get your license will be easy. You can try to get into the union in some places with can be hard the are a lot of people trying to get in most likely. Pay will start out better you will get benefits. You will learn from people who know what they are doing and are most likely not cracked out. But the will most likely treat you like a slave POS for the first few years. But you will come out knowing a lot more and getting paid better than non-union. I would expect it to take you 10 years in the trade until you ready to start a contracting business

Speedy Petey

I'm not sure what part of the H-V you are working in but I don't see very many druggies and crack heads in the electrical trade. Maybe a few drunks, but the druggies don't last very long in this trade. Even the drunks don't amount to much as the years go on.
These guys stand out from the crowd and are not tolerated.

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mdshunk

I might add that I've never met an electrician that I thought was drug addicted. There may be some, but I've never met any.

HUDSONVALLEYEXT

I worked in the electrical trade in Dutchess years back...

Coming out of high school I must have worked for 5 electrical contractors all well known in the area for about 3 years..Co workers use to snort dope in the van on the way to work. They used to smoke crack behind dumpsters drink beer all day. It was like this at every company. One foreman told me this boss lets this go on because this is all the help he could find. I got so sick of the drugs on the job and the risk of being hurt or killed when you need depend on your co-workers but can't because the or drunk and high left me no choice but to leave the trade.

If you are a contractor you must not know what goes on when your not on jobs...

Speedy Petey

No, we know what happens when we are not there, which is why we know this stuff goes on. Just NOT on our jobs. Also why I will stay small for as long as possible. Good help IS hard to find. But I will NOT, repeat NOT, put up with that!

Back in the day, late 80's, I worked for a guy on LI and I was basically the drive/helper of a dude who lost his license from DWIs. He was an incredible electrician, he was just a drunk and dope addict. The guy was also HUGE. He used to make me drive through Jamaica to buy drugs. All I could thinnk of was what if he (we) get caught. We are ALL going down.
My boss asked me if he was smoking pot in the truck. I said if you are asking me this you already know the answer. I was green and didn't want any trouble with my huge co-worker.

I demanded he put me with another J-man. He did.

So I think we ALL know what goes on in the field. It's how much will you put up with?

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