Amp No Junction Box Connectors

Bubbles

Has anyone seen or used these? http://www.ampnetconnect.com/product...sp?grp_id=2299

I've had some for a year but never used. Don't like idea of these even know they are supposedly code for some areas. My inspector said I could use them if I put them in a junction box?? what's the point then? The only reason I looked into it was one of our GC's that does top end kitchen/bath remodels doesnt like covers (the clean/yuppy look).

Bubbles

Check em out Photo

http://www.ampnetconnect.com/product...7&pn=111637702

kbsparky

These are commonly used for interconnect/crossovers on mobile, modular, and sectional homes. They are legal for concealed use without a junction box.

I don't personally like to "bury" them per se, since I have encountered bad ones, and had to rewire circuits around them from time to time.

Edit to add: "bury" as in buried in a wall, not in the ground or dirt.

te12c02w

I don't much care for them either, but several of the modular homes we have hooked up the last couple of years have used this type of connector. The only sizes I have seen is for 14/2, 14/3, 12/2, 12/3. We have encountered several problems with these connectors. They are easy to goof up if you are not paying attention and the connection can fail. The worst was 2 years ago when we had to find out why the baseboard heater on one house wouldn't work. Turned out to be one of these connectors buried in 20 inches of blown in insulation.

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Jim R

Celtic

Thank you...I looked at the site when you posted this but couldn't find the picture.

I believe kb is correct that are not allowed in buildings other than those of the manufactured or mobile type.

We had a discussion about that product a few months ago on another forum, I will see if I can find the relevant information.

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Chris75

This is not true, If your looking to install these correctly, you need to follow 334.40(B), You cannot bury these connections...

Celtic

Sorry Chris....you are incorrect....
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/product...07&path=0,2299

NEC '02 334.40(B) states:
For '02 code cycle - this product IS LEGAL.

For '05 code cycle, the NEC remains unchanged on 334.40(B), therefore this product IS LEGAL.

For the '08 code cycle, the NEC remains unchanged on 334.40(B), therefore this product IS LEGAL.


I, personally, would NOT use this product in spite of it's compliance with 334.40(B)

Here is the posting from the other forum:
Amp Connectors and 334.40(B) from 02-27-2007
Romex splice/tap connectors from 11-01-2007

One of the above threads also cites a reference to the IAEI:
http://iaei-western.org/Files/2007/2...ePanel_Q&A.doc

Here is the relevant text from that document:
Bottom line:
These interconnecors are insulating devices equivalent to NM cable and can be installed in accordance with Section 334.40(B), so if is being used for rewiring in existing building, it can be concealed and fished.


Jimmy cracked corn and I STILL would NOT use these connectors for ANYTHING.


Now if Bubbles choices to use them in existing rewire jobs or as exposed, that is entirely up to him.

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Bubbles

Good stuff. So they are legal. My inspector won't let me use them but, I still wouldn't use them even if he did say ok. I'll wait for all the fires to happen and they are banned again and then say I told you so..ha

Thanks for info camrades

Backstabbing is perfectly legal as well but how many of us actuall do it?? 60% last I heard?

Celtic

There is always the "amended" version of the NEC in play....in NJ for example, AFCI protection required by 210.12 is "optional".
Your area may have decided the risks out-weighed the benefits of the amp-conn and tossed a flag on the play.

FWIW, I think you made the "best" decision

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Chris75

Celtic, I should have been more specific when I said you could not bury them, You can ONLY bury them IF you have access to them again, which pretty much means you can not bury them...


(I thought we already had this discussion at Mike Holt's Forum)

Celtic

ummm...no.

They can be buried for all eternity as per 334.40(B) ~ "...and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. "

I don't know how you would be able to gain access to a fished wire?

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Chris75

So why the requirement of the fished wire if your able to bury this product in the wall?

And I agree you can bury them in a wall... if you are brave enough..

Celtic

So all the hacks can piece together their precious scraps of NM


Personally, I cannot think of one single instance where I would recommend the use of that product.

I have such disdain for the product, I would not suggest where it might be used in a home.

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JohnJ0906

The only place I have ever seen these was in modular homes, for the interconnects between the various sections. I made sure that they were well above the blown insulation.

I would have preferred to remove them and use J-boxes, but the boss shot that down.

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

jrclen

60 percent kind of bothers me. I'd like to see 6 percent or .6 percent. Or less. I have run across those connectors though. In modular homes to connect the wiring from one half to the other half. Some are in the attic crawl space, covered with insulation. Some are in a wall space in a closet covered with a removable grate type cover. Pretty much accessible either way if you know where to find them. I personally would not use them.

L. B. Condulet

I backstab all devices on 15 amp circuits. Been doing it for decades. I don't pigtail either, just bridge the circuit across the device. Never had a problem. I've replaced too many burned out receptacles that were side wired.

When you watch an electrician side wire a receptacle, it's like seeing that you have a hole in your pocket and you're watching your money fall out. It actually hurts to watch.

I also use these and have had no problems:

jrclen

I've worked for contractors who insisted on back stabbing. I avoid it like the plaque if I can. I've replaced to many back stabbed receptacles. But it is code compliant at this point, so carry on by all means.

Celtic

You should be thanking the man for keeping you employed


If the powers that be determine that back-stabbing, amp-conns, and other various assorted electrical components of dubious quality are "OK" - who are we, as slightly educated knuckle-draggers, to question their vast knowledge and accolades?


As with all things in life - You get what you pay for.
If the customer wants a bargain price.....

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747

Those are definately used in modular homes for a 100 percent fact. Now the modular home people claim there great. I don't know but i do know md shunk in this forum doesn't like those because he said so a while back. As in not trusting those kind of connections.

L. B. Condulet

I've replaced hundreds of receptacles in my career as an Electrical God and I can say that most were side wired. The vast majority actually. The problems related to back stabbing are pure urban legend.