3-way Switch Extension

72chevy4x4

I was installing a partition in a log cabin and found the wiring circuits in an existing wall section had two 3-way switches which had been extended 5' from the original box located in the outer wall of the log cabin. The extensions were comprised of 3 12-2's versus the use of 2 12-3's. The common's (or is it called 'traveler'?) for each switch were run in one run of 12-2.

question is: how bad is that? I just read another thread about not switching multiple lines in a switch and inductive heating of the box (hope that's correct-it was Wilber's thread).

jbwhite

If using NM cable and plastic boxes inductive heating is not a problem.

If conductors of the same switch loop pass through different holes in metal boxes it could be a problem.

Either way it is a code violation, and anyone trying to troubleshoot this install in the future could be confused by what is going on.

Magnettica

Just for arguments sake...

What NEC code does this installation violate?

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Sparky Joe

Not sure what your asking about, but it reminds me of something interesting.........

I heard last week that a proposed change for '08 is that every switch will require a neutral in the box.
The reason for this proposed change is due to the inductive reactance of the hots carrying power without the neutral carrying the 180 opposite of the hots side by side with the hots.

This is to me a ridiculous proposal, mainly because there are no percieved issues with the way we've been doing it for years.
But also because when doing a 'switch loop' your carrying the hot in and the hot out right next to each other in opposite directions of each other which means any reactance is immediately canceled out, in fact even better than if a neutral were carried parallel.

mdshunk

They're looking for a way to sell the 14-4 and 12-4 that nobody buys.

Sparky Joe

I've never even heard of a 4 wire cable.....
Is that 2 hots and 2 whites?

But I did assume it was someone from South Wire or the likes proposing it.

JohnJ0906

I thought the point of that proposal was to provide a neutral for the fancy progamable ones or timers that need a neutral. Keep people from useing the ground instead

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John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

Magnettica

Ok, so if a grounded conductor is needed, spec it out in the plans.

Duh!

14-4, 12-4 - used both maybe twice in fifteen years for 3-phase lighting circuits.

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Sparky Joe

What's going on with MD, he doesn't seem to be with it like he used to????

frenchsparky

Well ,, I hate to step in this late of this " debate " here but for 12-4 and 14-4 will become popuar not too far in future if the NEC code do apdot the AFCI for all the branch circuits so this will be instering twist here but i will like to say something about that but i going to wait and see how the manufacter work with AFCI and get it working smooth after all the years they " Yak , Yak , Yak " and finally move their butt.


[ just let you knw that i am not try to stir up the mess right now but it will be good debate to talk about it .]

so i will just sit and wait and see how many states will chew on the AFCI issuse [ My state did spit it out the last 3 code cycles ]


Merci , Marc

JohnJ0906

How do you plan for 5 years down the road? Too many HOs aren't calling an electrician to put simple stuff in-and too many electricians will use the EGC where a Grounded conductor isn't present.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One Day at a Time"
All replies based on the 2008 NEC

jbwhite

300.3 (B)

hcecalaska

get rid of all the NM/MC cable. if electricians had to learn to pipe a job again maybe we would get some skilled craftsman in the trade again.