3 Phase Panel Grounding

BWE

my friend bought a house and i noticed theirs no main ground wire at the main water pipe and i looked at the 200 amp 3 phase panel and theirs no ground wire. it also has an old diconect switch from the 60s

i was wondering if its posible it could be grounded another way
also how do i check if the panel is grounded

im living in toronto canada
thanks guys

protechplumbing

You have a house that's 3-phase? Is that standard in Canada? Every house I've ever seen in the USA is split-phase.

Celtic

There are many homes in the US that are 3Ø ...I wired a few condos that had 3Ø services to them ~ these condos were smaller than my house

What is "split-phase"?
The majority of US homes have single-phase.

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protechplumbing

First and foremost, let me say I'm a plumber not an electrician (though I hope to change that one day).

Split phase IS single phase. Have you ever wondered why there are 2 120v hot that make 240v when both sides are hot? It's because they are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Single phase actually has 2 phases. It's called "single phase" or more properly "split phase" because only 1 of the 3 phases on the power pole is used and that one phase is split into 2 phases using a neutral center tapped transformer. In short, "single phase" and "split phase" are the same thing.

OK, now all you electricians can flame me to death.........

protechplumbing

Again, pardon the stupid plumber, but how is that done? How do you create a 240V circuit with two 120v phases seperated at 120 degrees?

BWE

can anyone answer my question?

Magnettica

Only 3-phase wiring is separated by 120 electrical degrees.

What the OP has is a 3-wire 120/240 "un"solidily grounded single-phase service.

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Speedy Petey

I can. Ask your boss or J-man.

I don't mean to offend you but you are obviously not experienced enough yet to be working on your own, ESPECIALLY in someone else's house.

The main grounding bonding would take place at the main disconnect.

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protechplumbing

Yeah, but I thought he said it WAS 3-phase. So how would you power a 240v appliance such as a dryer or water heater if the legs were spaced by 120Deg. ? That wouldn't make 240v. ???

protechplumbing

I just went back over it. Are you saying that he is mistaken about it being 3-phase. It's actually single phase 3-wire?

nap

well, if it is a delta supply, then leg to leg would be 240. If it is wye, it would be 208.

that is how it is.

if it is a wye service, you would have 3 legs of 120 to neutral.

if a center tapped delta, you would have 2 legs of 120 to neutral (actually; grounded conductor) and 1 leg of 208.

these voltages may vary and are dependent on service supply voltages. They should be within +- 10% though.

Oh, and split phase is generally used in reference to a motor type. Single phase would be the proper term for a typical US style residential power supply.

protechplumbing

I see, kinda.

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nap

does this help any?

http://www.bmillerengineering.com/elecsys.htm

realize that the single phase in the first pic is the secondary of a transformer that utilizes two of the legs or one tap and the neutral from one of the 3 phase trnasformer configurations for the primary side of that transformer. You can make any voltage you want from any supply voltage you have. It is merely a ratio of primary to secondary windings that determine the secondary voltage compared to the primary voltage.

Magnettica

explaining transformers isn't easy teaching electricians muchless trying to teach a plumber, no offense.

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protechplumbing

The single phase stuff makes sense, but I'm lost when I start looking at the 3 phase stuff. Time to pick up the books again.

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Celtic

Let's look at some pictures....

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Magnettica

Yes!

Pictures rule!!

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protechplumbing

Excellent pictures. Thank you

single phase???? I see 2 phases there. see picture.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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protechplumbing

Disregard that last post. I get it.

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protechplumbing

That secondary winding produces produces 2 phases 180deg apart at points A and C. That was induced from a single phase on the primary winding. That's why it's considered single phase?

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