2008 NEC Changes

Northernboy

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum but have been a lurker for a while. I just got my 08 code book and am not to happy with the removal of dedicated receptacles not having to be GFCI protected in unfinished basements. I think sump pumps and freezers should not have to be on GFCI's because of basement flooding and being a hunter, I don't want all my hard earned meat to get spoiled from a nusiance trip when I'm out of town. Any comments!

mdshunk

Yes, it would be much better to allow a ground fault to exist than have some spoiled meat... not!

Think about this... if you go out to buy a freezer today, most of them have a power loss alarm. There are even aftermarket temperature alarms for around 100 bucks that will dial the phone. There are water level alarms for your sump pump, batterry backup sump pumps, and water powered sump pumps.

You have other options other than omitting the GFCI. Think about this statement... "There is no such thing as a nuisance GFCI trip". That is to say, it might be a nuisance to you when it trips, but there was a reason it trips. Consider also that 100% of the refrigerators, freezers, and sump pumps that I've investigated for occasional GFCI tripping have meggered really bad from hot to ground.

Northernboy

Alarms are only good if someone's there to hear them, batteries go dead and there's not much that can be done about a problem if your 1000 miles away and you get a phonecall except ruin your week. I haven't personally encountered it, but I've hear that lightning strikes in the area can trip a GFCI which I would consider a nuisance. I guess I still believe in dedicated receptacles and hate to put too much reliance on a little electronic package. I have gotten GFCI's out of the box that wouldn't reset, and have changed out receptacles that would not reset. Granted that I don't know how much abuse they were subjected to over the years.

Sparky Joe

If your house is already built and this freezer and sump pump receptacles are already in place, then you are not subjective to the '08 code. Just don't wire new ones that are not GFI protected.

Northernboy

I won't be changing mine out, but that doesn't help the rest of the masses. Where is it going to end, why not put every receptacle on a GFCI/AFCI combination device (when they invent one) instead of added a few every 3 years. I'm sure the safety patrol out there can think of a possible hazard in everything. That's why my kid can't ride his bike down the street without being padded down like a football player or my neighbors will call social services on me. Why not GFCI the dishwashers and the ranges, I'm sure sometime in history one of them has grounded. Come to think of it, that would be perfect, then we woudn't need an equipment grounding conductor anymore. Think of the savings.

mdshunk

Northern... are you trying to save the world one wiring job at a time, or are you running a business? You can't do both. In any event, you have recourse. You can still get your proposals in for the 2011 NEC, I believe.

Northernboy

I just am a little sick of the whole nanny state, wrap everything in bubblewrap thing. It kind of stops evolution in it's tracks if even the weak can survive. Hows a kid ever going to learn not to stick a knife in a receptacle if he doesn't get a little shock like I did. When I'm old and on a respirator, I hope they don't plug it into a GFCI on me. Enough said!

copusbuilder

I hear yah. Just because your running a business doesn't mean you have to accept every thing our "protectors" come up with.
can it easily be changed....no, but you don't have to agree with it!

I like the spunk Northern boy is showing. We need more of that

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Magnettica

I have the new 2008 NEC but haven't looked at much yet. I'll also buy the changes book when it comes out. But let me say this: It's one thing to have a freezer full of meat that's gone bad, but something else entirely to come home from a vacation to find your basement flooded out because the sump pump receptacle tripped out.

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Celtic

Suggest the folks buy all hard wired appliances for the basement

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Northernboy

Yes, the hardwired thing would work. I know people who buy a new sump pump every year whether they need one or not just to make sure they don't have a problem. If they were all hardwired that just means more work for us to go and change them out. It's just that damn conscience thing that always seems to work against me.

Celtic

You are just giving the customer what they want - NO PROBLEMS.

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copusbuilder

If you folks lived in a land with few basements you wouldn't worry about flooding. You'd just have to worry about 11" rains!

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Andy in ATL

Didn't he just kind of describe the U.K.???

frenchsparky

Close engough i used to live in France so i know their system it can be insane compared to our system it is a cat's meow

Merci , Marc

P.S. The UK verison of GFCI is RCD = resdentaual currentleakage detector

John Valdes

Sorry Deleted

480sparky

Wow. 2½ YO thread!

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John Valdes

Sorry 480. I just registered and was trying to get my post count to 15. I am helping another forum member and cannot PM or post links to help him. I forgot that I was bringing this back to life.