2008 NEC Ceiling Luminaire Support Help

thom

Am I missing something? It seems to me that the new rules require ceiling fan boxes (50# loads) for all ceiling mounted lighting, even in closets, halls, etc where no one would ever install a fan. Is this correct?

mdshunk

What section are you reading? Not doubting you, just wanted to read for myself to offer my take on it. I haven't heard this yet.

thom

This is section 314.27

mickeyco

Revision: 314.27(D) Boxes at Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fan Outlets
A new last sentence adds specific requirements regarding the type of box that must be installed when two or more switched ungrounded conductors (switch legs) are roughed in to the box. The new requirement calls for a box that is listed for sole support of a ceiling-suspended paddle fan. This requirement applies to all occupancy types as it is currently worded. This affects the rough-in stages of all electrical installations where ceiling-mounted outlet boxes are installed and more than one switch leg is provided to the outlet. It is commonly understood that in many residential occupancies and some commercial occupancies, luminaires are sometimes replaced by a ceiling-suspended paddle fan at some time after the initial installation, but rarely are the proper listed boxes installed to accommodate the fan support requirements in the NEC. This new requirement takes a proactive approach through a rule that should help reduce the number of ceiling-suspended paddle fan installations that would be supported solely by boxes that are not designed or suitable for providing adequate support (see figure 5). Link

Figure 5

__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

thom

Mickey, how does that fit with:

(A) Boxes at Luminaire Outlets. Boxes used at luminaire or lampholder outlets in a ceiling shall be designed for the purpose and shall be required to support a luminaire weighing a minimum of 23kf (50 lb). ....

mickeyco

I'd wait for md, unless you want me to speculate (you don't want that). I just remember reading what I posted a while back when I wanted to see what the 2008 code changes were, it'll be another ten or so years before we're on the 2008 NEC.


.

__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

thom

I'm jealous. We are already on the 2008 NEC. When added to the new state electrical codes it seems like I'm starting all over.

mdshunk

Yes, all your ceiling boxes for lights need to be rated for 50 pounds now, but not necessarily fan rated. The fan rated boxes are not only rated for the weight, but also rated for the vibrations and wiggling a fan imposes on them. The UL says metallic and nonmetallic outlet boxes that are used for lights must be marked on the shipping carton, "for fixture support". If the box has those words, then the box is automatically suitable for supporting up to 50 pounds.

Check it out, from the UL:

QCIT.GuideInfo Metallic Outlet Boxes
QCMZ.GuideInfo Nonmetallic Outlet Boxes

(E) of that section permits the regular cheapie ceiling boxes still for stuff like smoke detectors.

thom

Thanks MD. Just wanted to verify that I wasn't missing something. It does seem overkill to put a 50# box in a closet. Our state code requires us to put a light in the attic. We use ceramic pull chain fixtures. Now we must hang them from a 50# rated box I guess.

Of course the state had to go further, then the city further. 80% or more of our lighting must be florescents, exterior lights must be motion or photo-cell controlled, we must run a conduit from the garage to the roof for future photovoltaics, ......

mickeyco

How about closet lights with pull chains and no switched legs (or any ceiling fixture with no switched legs)?


.

__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

thom

They changed the descriptions. It's now luminaires. Switches aren't an issue. It's just ceiling mounted luminaires. That's why receptacles and smokes don't count, they aren't luminaires.

fridaymean

Not absolutly true. Woodstock will be on 08 as of Jan. 1, 09. Some inspectors refer to the 08 code eventhough the city says they go by 05, 02, etc. Just depends where you are and who shows up on your site to inspect that day.

fridaymean

Dont forget, the 1900 with the 1.5" bracket is rated for 50lbs. I don't remember what a 1900 with a standard bracket is rated for, though, I'd bet it would be 50lbs or higher.

mickeyco

I was referring to my town, we're on the 1990 NEC, across the street they're on the 2005 NEC. This state is so screwed up with all the different codes.

.

__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

mickeyco

From above:

This affects the rough-in stages of all electrical installations where ceiling-mounted outlet boxes are installed and more than one switch leg is provided to the outlet.

__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

fridaymean

Absolutly.