2 Wire Outlet

Tonyeo

Hi all
A quick question, I have on a couple of occasions gone to a job where the customer wants the old 2 prong outlet replaced with the newer 3 prong, of course there are 2 wires hot and nautral and no ground, I normally tell them to get an electrician to check the wiring, but I am wondering what you guys actually do in these situations.


Tonyeo

MALCO.New.York

Two pronged outlet most likely a metal box? Ground the 3 prong to the box if the box goes to earth. If not.....Re wire is the only proper solution I know of.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

darren

The quickest solution is to put a GFI in place of the 2 prong outlet and label it "no equipment ground" which is on a sticker that comes with the GFI.

I know for sure this is allowed in Canada and 95% sure it is alowed by the NEC.

woodchuck2

X2, what i have always done for HUDD work since this is always BX is check that the wire is tight in the box and bond the new rec to the box with a piece of ground wire. Only other way to properly ground the circuit is to run a new one as stated. Be careful of the insulation on the wire also, it tends to be brittle and you may also need pigtails so you have enough wire to work with.

mdshunk

I beg you to please not do electrical work. That is just so wrong in so many ways. Matter of fact, hazardous advice.

MALCO.New.York

I am not sure I follow you. Are you misinterpreting my wording. Please elaborate where you see an error.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

Tonyeo

So if I understand this I can put a gfi with warning in place of the 2 pin outlet, now what about other outlets on the same line, will the one gfi suffice and can I then add regular 3 pin outlets in the other boxes.


Tonyeo

I only ask because I want to know

mdshunk

Yea, as long as they are "downstream" from that GFCI, and they are connected to the GFCI's load side terminals. The code also requires you to affix the 'no equipment ground' sticker to these receptacles as well, which nobody ever does. I think that's a silly requirement too. A sticker does nothing to enhance the safety of the installation.

Tonyeo

Thanks very helpful

__________________
Tonyeo

I only ask because I want to know
http://www.whitebearhm.com

InPhase277

Start at "if the box goes to earth"...

InPhase277

MALCO.New.York

Ground.

"In electrical engineering, the term ground or earth has several meanings depending on the specific application areas. Ground is the reference point in an electrical circuit from which other voltages are measured, a common return path for electrical current (earth return or ground return), or a direct physical connection to the Earth."

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...ong3pronga.jpg

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

mdshunk

You really don't have a clue, do you? You do realize that current does not return to or flow to the earth in a home's wiring system, and any references the grounding system might have to earth do not enhance the operation of the ground fault and overcurrent protective devices, don't you?

Time to get on board with some pertinent terminology, and avoid the use of the word 'earth' unless you're talking about lightning rods or grounding electrodes.

MALCO.New.York

You misinterpreted and I mis worded. Although in any European Country Earth and Ground are interchangeable (but last I checked we were not in Europe). There is nothing wrong with my circuit just my word.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

220/221

The best solution is GFCI breakers at the panel. They will protect the entire circuit.

It's really hard to stuff a GFCI into an old metal box.

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Tonyeo

So if there is a gfci at the panel I can install 3 prong outlets without the ground ? is that right, man I love learning things
oh and I am originally from England and still call it earth sometimes.

__________________
Tonyeo

I only ask because I want to know
http://www.whitebearhm.com

InPhase277

It is true that it is legal, and safe, because the GFCI won't allow current flow anywhere but the circuit conductors.

However, the bonded equipment ground in a 3-wire circuit is often used as a reference for electronic equipment, like computers. Without a real ground, bonded to the neutral at the service, you may find you get the "Blue Screen of Death" from a computer connected to a "No Equipment Ground" GFCI outlet. Especially in the winter when the air is dry, and the cat is rubbing against the computer case...


InPhase277

Tonyeo

The safest way is to rewire with ground and this is preferable to anything else, then as a stopgap you can GFCI either the outlet or breaker with the understanding that it is not grounded and any item that needs a ground will not be as safe.

__________________
Tonyeo

I only ask because I want to know
http://www.whitebearhm.com

MALCO.New.York

That is a repair.

Versus a fix. Versus rigging it.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

Celtic

At what point is it considered a replacement ?

__________________

heavyduty73

call an electrician!!!! seeing how your from minnesota your aware that only homeowners and licensed contractors are allowed to to do electrical work. I'm assuming you have the insurance to cover any damage done by your faulty wiring no offense because even professionals make mistakes but we are covered by insurance. good luck!!