12-3 Question

mikebro22

Hello everyone I'm new to this forum & am really happy to have found it. I'm a first year apprentice & have started doing side work. I would like to run a 12-3 each hot on a dedicated 20 amp push matic breaker. One circuit will feed a 120v 12.6 amp jakuzi motor through a gfci receptacle, the other circuit I want to feed 2 additional gfci receptacles. My question is, will this run okay if I'm sharing the same neutral? The blk wire will be on a breaker on the left side of the panel and the red will be on a breaker on the right side. I appreciate any help.

Safety-Guy

As for "Side Work" if you worked for my company and were caught doing side work you would be terminated. Even though you are a first year apprentice whose liscense do you work under? I can't tell you how many times people call to complain about work done as "Side Work" and we have to go make repairs on things that the new guys do. We have lost not only apprentices but some seasoned vets for side work. You must ask yourself, are you ready to accept the liability for the work you do and prepared to pay for someone being injured or even worse killed by the work you do. As a first year apprentice I am sorry to tell you but I do not trust you with my life and I do not condone side work by apprentices (or anyone) just from a liability standpoint.
There is alot more to doing electrical work than just hooking up wires. You have shown that you want to be an electrician, But you should strive to become a "Qualified Electrician"

CE1

My views parallel Safety-Guy's when it comes to the safety issue and agree unanimously with everything in his post . The idea of an apprentice is to learn under the direct supervision of a Master. I do not like the idea of an apprentice who works for me doing side work (moonlighting). If an apprentice needs more work, I can and will arrange for it and supervise it, no problem. There are to many things that you do not know and a good example is your post. You need to concentrate on your schooling and accumulating experience. Keep asking questions and asking for help.

Sorry to sound harsh, but being an electrician can be dangerous for the inexperienced and I do not want to see anything bad happen to you. So please continue on your chosen path with caution.

robertc65

I just love it when someone asks a question and the prima-donna holier than thou type tradesmen get all torqued up. You guys don't know anything about this guy other than he has only a year experience and has the desire to learn and work. He did the right thing by asking before just doing it. You just can't generalize saying if you are not a master electrician you should not do any side work. He may be doing this for his Mother for Gods sake. Just because he does not know something does not automatically mean he is a danger to himself and others. He very well may be a careful and detail oriented person.

As for doing side work for total strangers and using your company name for gravitas I agree this is not a good thing. If however he is doing something for a friend that he is comfortable doing I just don't see the big issue here? It does not take a master electrician to add a few recepticals. Yes there are hacks out there that are sloppy and do stupid things but just because you have only been doing this for a year does not automatically put someone in that catagory.

Mikebro22, To answer your question just make sure the two circuit breakers are not on the same phase and you can share the nuetral.

sundogusa

If you worked for me, and this side job was not for immediate family, you would be terminated. The way I see it is you are taking money out of my pocket. I would have to question where you got the materials, also.

Before I answer your question, most of the rules in place prohibit an apprentice from working alone.

If you must do what you are asking, make sure the red and the black are NOT on the same phase. Measure the volts between the two breakers you are using. It should be 240V in a residence.

sundogusa

Did you really type that

Fact: Electrical work by unqualified people is dangerous.

<EOM>

Bill

I tend to lean towards Safety-Guy's point. As a master plumber and building contractor I've seen first hand what some peoiple do on their "SIDE JOBS" and it's not pretty. And as far as electrical goe's if the apprentice is good enough to do work on the side, shouldent he (Or she) know the local codes and be able to answer his (Or her) own question?

__________________
Is it beer thirty yet
Virginia Department of Licensing
Virginia Plumbing Codes

CE1

Tell you what, this has gone way too far and I consider your post to have crossed the line.


By the way, DO YOU REALY know what a "prima donna" is?

frenchsparky

i hate to step in but i going to agree with ABP,Sundogusa,safetyguy ,Robertc65, CE1,

if you want to work on side job you have to talk to the master electrician that person might willing to work with you but each area have diffrent rules for working on side line so please respect us here and heed our warning because we like to keep our names clean that all we need to


Merci, Marc

Master Electricican [ USA and France ]

CE1

mikebro22

I still stand by this statment.

oldgoat

I had one electrician come out for a quote that had his own side business separate from the manf company he works for. In fact many of the maint. people have side businesses there. The guy that did the sheetrocking worked for a drywall company and had his own side business and the drywall company sent him to quote on it. Even the framers and concrete guys had their own side businesses, but they contracted out on their own jobs.

fridaymean

Your enthusiasim is great. But you should be careful not to undertake anything that you are unsure of, especially with electricity. If you have to ask, you should not be doing work on your own.

Sidework is a dangerous venture. Your health insurance will not cover you if you get hurt doing side work. What happens if someone else gets hurt, killed, or there is property damage? Also, like some of the above posters stated, you could/will be fired.

One way to look at sidework, essentially you are becoming your employers competition. Employers do not like "training" competition.

mikebro22

all this feed back is great although it's a bummer most of it is criticizing. I'm doing this "side job" for a family friend who asked "me". I'm not going around stealing my company's buisiness since this is a residential job and my company is solely commercial. All the material is bought from home depot. I just want to do this job for experience. I have already hooked up a dedicated circuit for them & am carefull about getting all the details before proceeding. The last thing I want to do is injure myself or anyone else. Unfortunately some of you have a negative outlook towards apprentices & choose to withhold information rather than help me out. I did check the breakers w/ my voltage meter & they read 240 so I'm ok on the phases. I scanned through this forum last night and got tons of great information. Thanks to everyone

Speedy Petey

I'm sorry but I have to take the middle ground here, leaning away from safety guy.

Did any of you do "side work"? Almost everyone does/did side work. If you think different you are naive.

If you think side work is taking money out of your pockets then you really do think highly of yourselves, in that EVERY job in or around town will go to you. I think not.
Folks who will hire side job workers will NOT hire you. They will hire a handyman, apprentice, or do it themselves. ANYTHING to not have to pay our exorbitant rates (in their eyes). I persoanlly would rather not work for folks like that. Let the side job guys have them.

sundog, if you have to question whether your guys are stealing from you to do side work you should question even keeping them employed. They's a pretty dim view of your workers. If I had that much suspicion they would probably not be around long enough for it to be an issue.

As for rules and licensing. Folks from metopolitan areas always have these issues. What about MOST of the country. In my area (county), not all too far from the biggest metro area, there are only three small cities and villiages that require a license. Outside that anyone can do electrical work. I will say I DO have a big problem with this, but it is fact.
I'd also rather have a knowledgable electrician doing a job than a handyman or carpenter who thinks they know what they are doing.

On the other side of the argument, I strongly feel that a first or second year apprentice, especially union or commercial, has NO place doing residential , or any, side work. IMO you do NOT know nearly enough to do a complete and safe job with that little experience, not matter how much you think you know.

__________________

sundogusa

I did and I have. The guy that was let go was stealing material. It is one of the few policies I have.

Mikebro here is another option for you that was not addressesd. Talk to one of your journeyman or masters. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Sometimes you'll get laughed at and other times you'll pickup on some of the finer points of being a great electrician. Always keep a good attitude!

krthomp33

OK, so here is a question concerning "SIDE WORK"

I work in a hospital, as a night maintenance guy, while I do electrical contracting for myself during the day.

Should I be terminated for doing side work?

I hold a masters license, and am fully insured in my business, have a EIN, and a tradename registered with the state.

Should I still be terminated for doing SIDE WORK?



And by the way, my supervisor knows and has no prolem with my business.

fridaymean

No, because the hospital is not an electrical contractor. They employ you to maintain thier facility. Therefore, you are not in competition with them.

fridaymean

As for some of the above comments, if you need to ask, then you do not have the adequate knowledge to do a quality job. That is where the term "qualified" electrician comes into play. Qualified would mean you have the knowledge and means to get the job done properly.

mikebro22

Thanks for the suggestion sundog. I am asking my company journeyman and foreman tons of questions about these jobs and even calling them during the job to make sure it's done correct. I would just like to get an alternate source of info once in awhile so I don't have to annoy the heck out of them. After 8 monthes of working these are my first jobs by myself. I understand the concern though I'm willing to bet the very same guys who don't agree have done the same thing, they just can't remember because that is ancient history by now.

oldgoat

It seems to me a fair amount of construction people have side businesses. Just seems around here anyway to be a normal deal. I have known businesses that will give their regular workers that have side businesses the smaller jobs. I know the guy that did my sheetrocking got it that way. As long as they aren't stealing your customers or your material I would hope you would have enough confidence in your business to be able to keep the business and not be afraid of someone trying to get started. I would almost bet that most did side jobs from time to time before they went into full time business themselves.