1 Circuit 2 Breakers

CER

I have a customer who I am doing a new bathroom for and they have a unique problem I have never encountered. They said they replaced there light switch years ago and they had to shut off 2 breakers for the one switch. Now I do a lot of remodeling and new wiring but am not a journeyman electrician. What should I look for as I believe this is a safety hazard. I have to do new wiring for a new exhaust fan and will be upgrading this switch anyways but has anyone ran into this before? Is there something I should look for or test as I am checking this out? Thanks for any advice.

480sparky

Sounds like there are two circuits in the house that are tied together somewhere.

Call an electrician to identify and correct the situation ASAP. Yes, it's dangerous.

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Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

ampman

yes can be dangerous needs to be done correctly

wireless

My guess is it is a three wire circuit. They shut the power off to the light but when they disconnected the neutral it sparked leading them to believe there are two breakers.

Magnettica

Sounds like it's back feeding somewhere. Had these 2 circuits been on different phases one of the 2 breakers would have tripped. The easy fix is to pull one of those lines out of the panel and into a junction box located outside of the panel. A more difficult fix would be to find where the 2 circuits meet and disconnect one or the other there.

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220/221

Look for work that you or another unqualified person has done there.

I know it's harsh but I run into so many things that have been done by well meaning people that know just enough to be dangerous.

You can replace fixtures/devices but in my opinon, all electrical work should be done by electricians.

There are a lot of things that could cause issues like this. You can go in there, open up boxes and poke around but if you don't understand the entire electrical system/circuits, you will be wasting time and money.

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Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

480sparky

They're not disconnecting neutrals, they're just turning breakers off.

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

olyteddy

I had one of those in an apartment. Some 'professional' had jumpered between an outlet in the bedroom and one in the living room. They were on different breakers, same leg of the 240 though, thank goodness...

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CER

CER

I can see you are one of the mouths on here so here is my response. I have over 20 years of electrical experience, over 50 panel boxes installed, new wiring,service entrances etc! All done to code and checked by local inspectors. I overdue any safety when it comes to electrical. I just like to ask a question before I have to chase wiring done by yes other unqualified people. It never hurts to ask people that are specific to one trade if they have ever had a similiar problem. Unfortunately you beleive I throw a ladder in the back of my truck and call myself a contractor. Maybe the one call back I had 4 years ago because a seal went in a window should tell you the quality of work I have provided for twenty years. One call back for all these years and not even a mistake on my part, well I can,t wait to offer my opinion if you ever offer a question. Thank you to all other "constructive" advice.

Anti-wingnut

You ask a question of a basically straightforward safety issue, and then take offence when people believe you are un-qualified as an electrician. Your post states that you are not an electrician, and implies that you "kind of hack around in it".

Most people who are qualified in electrical work would quickly recognize that a 110 circuit fed from two breakers was wrong and in error, and would not have to solicit the opinion of others. You set yourself up

220/221

Seems like you'd know exactly where to start looking.






I call BS.............but what do I know?





They must be right on the beach, huh?




:rimshot



.

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Tinstaafl

100% agreed, but...

Hogwash. Well, not really, but absolute statements ignore the exceptions that invalidate them. Before I went into construction, I spent 30 years as an electronics technician. I guarantee that I understand electricity just as well as any of you guys who have studied up and gotten your papers; probably better than many of you actually.

Residential electrical work is by and large mind-numbingly simple in terms of the actual theoretical knowledge needed to create a safe and reliable network of breakers, switches and outlets. It's well within the capabilities of any [real, bonafide handyman.

Where the handyman fails and the electrician reigns supreme is in the knowledge of codes and what it takes to make the AHJ happy. That is the real reason it makes sense to call in a specialist, to make a contracted job flow smoothly and get all the hoops jumped through for a simple task that Uncle Ralph could do on a Sunday afternoon if he felt like it.

480sparky

There's a huge chasm between electonics theory and electrical safety and codes.

In theory, this will work:


Now, obviously no right-mided handyman is going to do this, but unless you have a competent knowledge of the Code, and why some things are there, many installations end up being, "Well, the breaker didn't trip and it works, so it must be safe!"

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

220/221

Electronics is not electrical construction. Electrical theory is not electrical construction.


That is why I try to avoid them. There is a rather obvious qualifier that preceeds my "electricions only" statement that assures my statement is not absolute. I am generally very aware of this kind of thing.




Here's some tips for CER.

Never trust what a homeowner tells you.
Start by determinuing if it does take two breakers to kill the power.
If it is a MWBC, find the home run jbox.
If not, look for any work that may have been done by a handyman. They are notorious for installing fans and recessed cans.

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Tinstaafl

Ooh, that's purty!

Ironically though, that points up how silly the all-knowing Code can be in some instances. If I, in my infinite wisdom, decide to run a .3 watt nightlight fed by a hunk of coax, in practical terms there's not a lot of difference between that and a run of 12 gauge Romex. The danger comes in when someone else comes along and decides to run a space heater and a toaster off the same circuit.

And really, that's what the codes do more than anything else. They protect others from unknowingly assuming that a standard-looking outlet (or whatever) is anything but that, behind the scenes.

I have no problem with that, but the fact is that as anyone who works in this field knows, there are uncounted thousands of "violations" like that which work just fine for decades.

Oh, and I'm definitely not going to let you have a "gimme" on the idea that there's a chasm between electronics theory and electrical safety. The very basis of all electrical safety guidelines is based on theoretical calculations! Where the heck do you think all of those formulas came from?

Can you tell I'm in an argumentative mood tonight?

220/221

At least they wrapped the screw terminal in the right direction.

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Tinstaafl

Granted. I had a teacher way back when who had been an engineer. He could fill a blackboard with formulas as fast as he could write, but was totally clueless about how to fix a TV. Nevertheless, there are many of us in the real world who have the capacity to tie theory and practice together.

Guess I missed that...

480sparky

Now a critical question....... Are you licensed?

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

Magnettica

Wish I had the same luck.

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