Time For Taping Tools? Rent/Buy

personalt

We normally hang our own drywall and have a real good local taper do most the taping.

I just spoke to him for my current job and he just picked up a real big job and is unavailable.

I have guys on my crew that can do a decent job taping just not really fast. My current jobs is (3) - 1000 square foot condo. I was thinking of renting some automatic taping tools. How bad is the learning curve for these? We have to fire-rate the basement(unfinished space) so I have 1000 square feet where my guy can learn the bazooka and the flat box. Of course I only need to fire tape the basement but I was wondering if I have him use the bazooka, flat boxes and nail spotters on the basement ceiling is that enough him to get the hang of it? basement walls are block so there wouldnt be any practicing on the corner tools. But he can start with the closets to learn the corner tool as long as the learning curve isnt too bad

Taping tools rental is about $250 for 15 days which should give enough time. Are the ames rental sets comparable to what I would buy?

Another though was to buy the better then ever set at around $800 would that be a wiser decision? Is the $800 base system all I need or should I look to buy some of the other parts they sell?

taper71

It is hard to say. Unless you have someone experienced in running those tools your guy could end up wrecking the tools , or wrecking the job. With automatic taping tools , the mud consistancy has to be almost perfect to get a really good finish. Adjusting of the tools is another story if they are new -even if they are rented and broken in tools wear out and need adjusting. A 1000 sq ft isn't going to be enough to get the hang of running automatic tools and do the job properly or quickly for that matter IMO. Others might have different opinions but I would suggest to find someone experienced if you need the job done quickly and properly.

drywallet

Give him 5 minutes of training and walk away. Thats what happen to me. Ames has good tools. Renting kind of sucks, but do what you have to do. I would'nt rent the nail spotter or the 12 inch box. 1000 sqft each place isn't much so renting hurts when you have to pay for 15 days. Unless you can keep the tools working. It sounds like a good place to learn, heck if you can't try it out you'll never learn and make the big bucks like the rest of us. Good luck

1KingOfDrywall

The tube is not something you just pick up and run. Takes a good few months to get the timing right. If you "cock" the tube to cut the tape before coming to a complete 100% stop--BADA BING-- It's Jammed!!
Newbies do this numerous times per project. Also the mud needs to be watered down to a very wet mixture. 2-3 pans in a bucket. Now when it comes to running ceiling angles--forgetaboutit--. If you make the mud too wet, it'll leak all over the place and the tape will just drop, if you mix it too dry, you will pull and drag the tape and you will never get the job done. just mesh the flats and hand run the angles. If you ever get a job thats all up and down flats....thats the place to start. My first time running a tube was on a hospital we were doing. a few thousand sheets of walls and I eventually got it. But Top angles.....that took a while.
good luck.

woodmagman

When you say 3) 1000 square foot condos, is that the floor or board. because 1000 square feet of floor yeilds about 4500 feet of board. x 3 could be a costly curve. Yet I don't know you costs. If your guys are 20 percent slower then average it would be safe to say that they would be faster by the end of the job.

personalt

3000 square of living space.. i am at 17,000 board feet for the job but that includes a lot of double 5/8" fire rated 2 hour walls.. Should be about 12,000-14000 board feet of finishing.

1KingOfDrywall - you mention the tube as a long learning curve. what about the flat and corner boxes?

One thing i did notice that most of the finishing sets at all-wall.com only have one corner angle head. like the flat boxes should i expect to need two sizes of corner angle heads?

my guys daily cost is at least 50% less then the taper i have hired on the past so I dont need my guy to fly out of the gate with this thing.

taper71

You will need two corner flushers and a corner roller. I use a 3 inch for flushing during taping stage after rolling the corners and a 3 1/2 inch for finishing with the corner box. You need a way to put the mud in the corners also. I would suggest a mastic tube with the inside corner attachment. That would spead up your angle taping with not too much of a learning curve. Mix the mud to a consistency where you are not struggling to get mud into the tube. i used the tube itself to measure water about 1 and a half to 3/4 full tube for taping and 1 full tube for 10 inch box add alittle more for 12 inch. The flushers I personally use mechanical they are alot more finicky but adjust to the wall if out of wack and make a nicer finish You can also get a flat attachment ,for the tube, for putting mud on the flats and butts before taping. That will get your speed up to. The boxes are fairly easy to run just make sure to brake before you start your run and brake before you finish your run lifting the box for feathering it into the other side of your run. I am sorry That is the best way that I can explain for learning, someone else might have an easer softer way. Can you talk to your taper and get hints and tips from him he would probably be very benificial especially for mud consistency for it is way easier to see it than have someone explain it?

Mud Master

If you decide you want to use auto-tools, or at least give them a try, most suppliers will have someone come out in the field and train your employees, for a price of course.

If you think this is something you or your employees would want to do on a regular basis, I recommend to have a trained professional come out, and train them on how to use them. Rent them for this project and if you see that your guys have the hang of it and if you think it would save you money to allow them begin finishing your projects..than invest in a good set of auto's.

I have 3 bazzoka's and 4 squeeze boxes, and I rarley use them unless I get a REALLY big job. My guys all prefer hand finishing, as do I. And thier fast at it. They are all proficent in operating the auto's..but I always say stick with what works.

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woodmagman

Your boys will have the hang of it by the end of the job, if they don't give them and shovel and a broom. Three of then with limited experience should be able to do this in about 11 days.

1KingOfDrywall

the "mud boxes" are not so complicated. However using them on the bed coat is alot different from using them on a skim coat. On the bed coat......alot of pushing, and the mud needs to be almost bone dry. On the skim I add a little water to it and some dish soap as it aids in smooth operation. For a first time use, maybe run all the flats with mesh tape. Use a 10in knife with some durabond and pull it tight....so no exactly like a bed coat. when durabond dries, use the box to run over it.....see how that feels. Skimming is a joy ride compared to bed coating. As far as the angle tools....., if you aren't in tune with the tools you will be pulling down and tearing tape left and right. I guess if you start very slow and start getting braver just speed up and go with it. I think the best way is to watch someone over and over and over doing it. Hell.....I watched for a month or so before I picked one up, when i did finally, I just "new the rythm"....the rest is history.
Good luck.

emer constructi

I'm in your situation also. I've been picking up tools off of ebay along with some instructional videos, which helped.

(I couldn't post the link without 15 posts of my own)

1KingOfDrywall

but if anyone is looking......email me. I don't wanna use the board improperly.......Lol. I'm just saying I get a small surplus from time to time. right now I got a few extras of stilts, a mud pump, a tube, etc.??
I sometmes buy my guys tools to use, and when they quit I have them laying around. Half the time these guys are making payments on the tools, and when they pull the "drywaller disappearing act".... they leave half their stuff behind. So aside from the tools they left behind..... lets see here....I got a 1/2 drank bottle of whiskey
a carton of non filtered cigarettes, 1 work boot, and some green herb that looks like oregano.....maybe they were making spaghetti?
Gotta love the drywall business..............

personalt

i actually ordered the set of 4 hour of instruction video on ebay.

based on the learning curve would i expect to be better with the
better then ever system for the corners and maybe pick up a flat box or two for the flats?


the better then ever system seems to advertise itself on the fact that you work out from the corners so no picking rather then the regular corner tools where you push to the corners. in practical use does that make the better then ever system easier? or does the fact that the traditional corner tool is spring loaded make for a better corner?

taper71

I find that with the tin flushers it rounds out the corners more causing potential cracks . They also don't fill the bevels Like the mechanical flushers do. I personally think that you save time and get a better finish with the mechanical flushers and the corner box on final coat because it saves a step by putting the mud on and flushing at the same time.

Mud Master

I was browsing Ebay this morning and I tell ya they have some REALLY good deals on auto's. I couldn't believe some of the prices, compared to market value.

Brand new Tape Tech auto taper-$899.00
Brand new Tape Tech Full Set(auto taper,corner roller w/ handle, 10" standard flat box, 12" standard flat box, 8" corner applicator w/ handle, 3" adjustable corner finisher, corner finisher fiberglass handle, pump, gooseneck, filler, 34" standard flat box handle)-$3,160.00
Brand new tape tech power assist box set(7" power assist box, 10" power assist box, easy clean pump, 34" box handle, filler)-$1,169.00

Theres alot more but i've always been a fan of Tape Tech, and those are some damn decent prices.

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kgphoto

For guys who don't use auto tools and you need to do the job with reasonable speed, I would recommend the CAN-AM(CA) or Better Than Ever Tools(BTET) for the angles and a couple of rental boxes for the flats. Hand tape the butts. Sounds like it is already hung, so no way to use the Butt-Taper, Butt-Splicer products.

Use paper tape and the corner roller then the corner flusher of the CA or BTET sets. You will be amazed at the speed and quality of your "non-finishers" with these tools. Small enough to work in closets too.

Might want to add a Banjo to the mix for the flats and butts. Not too hard to use. The Super taper works well and more than one guy can use it at a time. Use the boxes(don't forget to get the pump) to apply to the flats and then final skim behind them with knives or trowels depending on your preference.