Proper Shower Drywall Fasteners

pawned

I have not been on this board for a very long time. I figured this is a place to get my information and not worry about it.

I bought a large grab bar for my shower it is 1.5 inches in Dia and is 92 inches long. (including the 2 bends)

I have installed many bathroom fixtures over the years, but nothing that needs to carry up to 200 lbs if a person uses it to pull themself up, if they were to fall in the shower (and live thru it)

What fasteners would you use to mount it thru the tiles and drywall.
I attempted to attach a picture of the bar and shower tile

Thanx

Bud Cline

Technically that bar should be installed into 2X blocking inside the wall using #10 or #12 X 2-1/2" stainless steel screws.

Obviously you can't now install blocking, so the next best thing is to locate the wall studs (good luck with that) and hope that two or more mounts hit on the studs and even then you are pressing your luck cause I don't think it's gonna happen.

It is my personal opinion that you are sticking your neck way out there if something were to happen and that bar were to be pulled out of the wall by a user.

The different angles/directions of the mounts have me sort of puzzled and I don't see how the thing is supposed to sit in its installed position. The fact that it must install on more than two different walls at the same time may be your saving-grace. In that case...toggle bolts are the way to go so that the toggles inside the wall are pulling on as much wallboard and tile as they possibly can. (Good luck with that too!) Personally I wouldn't install it at all without blocking in the wall.

That product is ADA approved so what does the ADA say about how it must be installed? What does your lawyer say about you installing it? What does your insurance company say about you installing it?

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cmwacasey

tggle bolts are probably the best way to go if you cannot find a stud.it would help to also glue the flanges to the tile with a good quality tub and tile adhesive caulk.inject some of the adhesive into the holes in the tile to have additional support for the toggles.you have to look for every little support or grab you can find.every little thing helps.

Mike Finley

I'm with Bud, your chances of mounting this safely are slim. You can certainly find the studs behind the tile easily enough, but if those connectors don't all fall on studs you shouldn't do this. All you have to do is one shower remodel where the tile and drywall comes apart in your hands to realize even if you did get them secure with Toggler Brand 1/4 toggle bolts there is no guarantee that they will remain secure if the wall starts to deteriorate.

You are much better off doing straight grab bar and angling it so you get both ends in studs.

Moen also makes a system you can purchase to use with their grabbars to mount them in tile, still not a guarantee if the drywall rots, but WAY better than toggle bolts.

DesPro

[quote=pawned;155432]I have not been on this board for a very long time. I figured this is a place to get my information and not worry about it.



What fasteners would you use to mount it thru the tiles and drywall.
I attempted to attach a picture of the bar and shower tile


I think this is the solution to your problem. I've seen them at trade shows and I was impressed. I haven't had to use them myself but I would if so needed. Here is the link http://www.wingits.com/AS-GBW40.pdf

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Teetorbilt

Many ADA approved grab bars come with toggle bolts as the mounting hardware. I always use any supplied hardware as it relieves me of the ins. burden.

Mark & drill the holes, clean well with acetone followed with denatured alcohol and bed in well with 3M 5200, same as a through hull in a boat. It's a mess to clean up (with mineral spirits) but in 48 hrs. you could probably remove the bolts and be fine. 5200 is some really sticky stuff.

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cmwacasey

teeter same thing I was trying to say. you just have a better way of saying it. bed in well to you tonight also.

Mike Finley

What are you guys, Teetor, Despro and cmwacasey going to do to prevent failure when the drywall that is behind your fastening systems fails? Claim you used the hardware that came with them? I've never seen a grab bar instruction sheet that did not say the best method is to install our grab bars is directly in blocking or studs and I've seen a lot of grab bar instructions. The toggle bolts are there, that's true, but the closest thing I have seen in the instructions is a warning to fasten directly to at least one stud.

Teetorbilt

Mike, using the supplied hardware or being able to prove that it is an acceptable fastening system will fly in a court. The only other option is to rip everything out, install the proper blocking and replace everything. Many elderly on fixed incomes cannot afford that.

Another item is that the majority of the elderly tend to be light and they only use the bars for stability as opposed to monkey bars.

I've been doing ADA work for almost 10 yrs. and my major question has been using cad plated hardware in shower/bath areas which is why I use the 5200 to coat and seal everything. IMHO, SS machine screws would be better with toggle bolts but when you alter an approved design on your own, you then become the manufacturer and are liable.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

cmwacasey

mike , a metal lathed ceramic tiled shower is pretty dang stout properly installed.I weigh 200 lbs and would not have a problem with a bar I installed in this application.you are right that many shower walls are not that stout and a real professional like yourself should make that determination.

thom

Unless you're on an outside wall, just cut and patch the sheetrock on the opposite side of the wall. Simple enough to put in solid blocking from the back side.

DesPro

Technical Specifications : WingIts® Fastening System
Solid Construction - Made from 304 (18/8) Stainless Steel.

ADA / Buidling Codes - exceeds all building codes and government guidelines.

Waterproof Seal - 3M VHB adhesive tape creates a waterproof sealed between the flange and the wall.

Clearance - Once inserted, each wing assembly will spring open to approx. 2-3/4" diameter. To ensure adequate clearance, a stud finder should be used to verify that there are NO STUDS within the area that the WingIt will be installed.

WingIts Grab Bar Fastening System will exceed building code criteria for grab bars in the following wall substrates:

• 5/8" drywall - painted or wallpapered.
• 1/2" or 5/8" drywall with tub surrounds.
• 1/2" or 5/8" drywall with tile, marble and all stone.
• 1/2" or 5/8" drywall with any panel types including fiberglass, faux marble, acrylic and plastics.
• Multiple layers of drywall.
• Plaster and lath.
• 1/4" acrylic / fiberglass surrounds.
• 1/4" acrylic / tub surrounds.
• All masonry typeboards, with or without panels.
• In residential installations, it is still preferable to have blocking if you are installing over 1/2" dry wall. (WingIts alone with 1/2" drywall will only hold up to 250 pounds). However, installation over ceramic tile, tub surrounds, marble do not require blocking and can handle up to 800 pWaterproof seal - Incorporates 3M® VHB Tape
  No blocking or studs needed
  No need to tear open and reconstruct walls
  Can be installed in sheet rock, ceramic tile, tub surrounds, marble, and plaster
  Can be installed in all framed walls
  In sheet rock and ceramic tile, WingIts hold up to 1000lbs
  Meet and exceed all building codes and ADA Requirements
  

__________________
"We are continually faced with great opportunities which are brilliantly disguised as unsolvable problems."
Margaret Mead

pawned

Thank you for the timely information.

I think I gave you the wrong impression, I would use this to get myself up from a fall in only the worst case senerio.
Other than that I would be using it to maintain balance while in the shower. This would have very light stress to the mounting flanges. Currently I have used the soap dish to balance myself.
I really think that the WingIts® Fastening System will be my best bet, short of taking down the wall in the family room to put in blocking (and that is one massive wall).

I am now reading the instructions that come with the bar, (Franklin Brass Mfg. Co. in LA, CA). They provide #10x2" stainless steel screws.
For tile wall installation they recomend using #10 plastic anchors.
Franklin puts in a disclaimer about not using their recomended instructions, but they are nuts to think that this disclaimer would cover an accident using #10 plastic anchors.

I will take the advice you have provided. Which I think is far superior to what Franklin provides.

One final note; The picture is cock-eyed. The mounting flange that is on closest to the camera, is in the wrong position. The vertical mouting bar can be turned to fit the wall

Mike Finley

Yep, a mudded wall shower would be a different animal. As long as the integrity of whatever the grab bar is fastened to won't conpromise over time go for it.

Wingits, Solid sets, Toggler Brand, the Moen stuff all of them are the same system in a different package and none of them address drywall rotting out. Maybe you guys who rely on stuff like that don't have drywall behind your tile showers, but around here that is all there is.