Optimize Drywall

georgmatthias

Hello everybody,

during my workexperience the last years something came to my mind how the whole manufacturing process of drywall constructions could be optimized.

Let's face the main problem: All the contractors I had to deal with where so poorly prepared when they arrived at the construction site that I had no problems as a construction manager or project manager to blame them for everything what went wrong and refuse mostly all of there possible claims.
As I know mostly it's their problem having no time doing all the pre paperworks precise.

So here's my solution and for any response I would be very appreciated.

Part 1

Step 1 You have a software that generates optimized construction drawings for the offered drywall construction which accourd to all national regulations and building rules based on the data your client gives you at the time of proposal.
Step 2 While generating the construction drawings you would get an bill of all materials needed for the offered drywall construction. Given you the apportunity for an precise estimation for your proposal.
Step 3 You would have an ideal material for the contract.
Step 4 Because you have precise construction drawings, it would be possible to prepare for example gypsumboard (precut etc.) before getting to the construction place.
Step 5 Your workers would have contruction drawings which could prevent failures and giving you the possibility for quality managment.
Step 6 If any changes accour you have something documented for the claim managment.


Part 2

Step 1 The same piece of software would make it possible to note any changes. So you can document possible claims.
Step 2 The software does the ammounting for you according to the contract an any possible national regulations (quantity managment)


My questions are:

Would you use this software?
Would you rafer buy the software or would you instead if an Gypsum Company give it for free ( for ex. USG, KNAUF etc.) buy their stuff?



And yes as you guessed right below are some screenshots (sorry at the moment I just have the german version)


Matthias Georg

P.S. Please feel free to correct my english.


[IMG]file:///I:/DOKUME%7E1/Georg/LOKALE%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

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neolitic

Pre-cut the drywall before delivering
it to the site?
What a great idea!
You could get rich here.

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Ivinni

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thom

Well George, you certainly sound like an engineer.

I think you should try that. Just give that list to every prospective bidder on your next project. While you're at it, why not require the drywall be pre-taped as well as pre-cut, sounds like another time saver.

Maybe you could extend this idea to other trades. How about the concrete guy deliver the foundation and slab pre-poured in order to save curing time. Maybe the framers could have their roof sheathing and all the rafters pre-cut. A real time saver would be requiring the tile setters to pre-cut all their tile so there's no time wasted cutting then cleaning up on site.

Let us all know how this works out for you.

AARC Drywall

there are way to many variables here...to many things that should have been, or its out of square etc...
Sorry, but life is not lived out of a book...it may work on paper, but in the real world there are way to many things that are beyond your control...Great concept, but the variables are working against you.

just my 2c worth..keep trying though.

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georgmatthias

Precut was just a stupid example, but you can package the material for every wall separatly.

And besides you can order ready to use foundations / beams etc made from concrete if you need them. Depends if your in a hurry and what the static allows.

But thanks for the reply

georgmatthias

Thanks for the replys.

Firstof all. It's as I see, one of the common problems. I'll explain it.

The concepts indeed doesn't make alot sense if you use for home-building projects. Let's say a project has drywall constructions worth 6k$ and you could make a possible 5-10% more. This would be only 300 - 600 bucks, while having or having more of paperwork. I'm with you, this doesn't make alot sense, only if your greedy.

But assume you're having a project let's say around 200k$ just walls no ceillings in a single construction place. Now the 5-10% more sound a little more interesting. And additionaly you'll have to deal with some of my single minded colleauges. And doing highrise or commercial projects you need to do paperworks, so it gives you the possibility doing little more and gaining more control of the project.
Doing a big project mostly with a main contractor, it's all about money. Wether you get it or they keep it.


Second. As AARC mentioned there would be to many variables to handle.

At the first view this sounds true, but doing this now for about 6 months it's not that much as you think. And in for example highrise projects, it all looks alike. Mostly its just a small variation.


Regards Matthias Georg

P.S. Please feel free to correct my English (german nativ)

platinumLLC

Maybe the framing in germany is more consistant than here in the U.S. but i did some commercial steel stud/drywalling in hospitals and sports stadiums and there are to many variables in the framing to be able to use precut sheets of drywall. Things like which corner you start your stud layout from to q change in plans during framing. Then you have the fact that when you have this precut drywall delivered it would take days on a $200,000 drywall job to deliver the right sheets to the right rooms. You would spend more time trying to put together the puzzle of peices and trying to make them work than it would take an experienced drywaller to just cut his own sheets. Plus you have to take into consideration all the penetrations you have in commercial drywalling so you would still have to make cuts to work around these. In a perfect world it would be nice to just throw precut sheets up but in commercial drywalling there is no perfect world.

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taper71

Your plan is getting the manufacturers to optimize. That would cost over and above any 5 or 10 % profit. Even the distributers would be charging more to pre package drywall. Also pre packaged drywall could not be placed in any optimized location. Not from guys making $12 per hour. Nobody does any optimizing for free. Also any drywall installer that works off of plans would take way to long to get the job done so they would be done ( let alone laughed off the site ). I think like AARC , it would look good on paper ( or software ) , but you are still dealing with humans with brains, not computers.

georgmatthias

Thanks for the reply.

Okay, first of all please don't get stock with the precut, as I explained earlier it was an stupid example.

Second, thank for mentioning the penetrations. These things beaten the hell out of my brain. Because if you just have regular openings like doors/passages/windows the whole optimization is done with some regular calculus. When you bring the penetrations and instalations etc in to the game normal calculus will not give you any results, because the problem isn't linear anymore. Therefor I use an generic algorithm generaten the "grid" and doing the patterning. Normaly for I get optimized result after 20 to 30 cycles.

Third is the mentioned consistant of the prior works. Believe me it's all over the world the same. We all know the truth it's an catastrophy.This was also a hard nut to crack, but solved with the generic algorithm.

Regards Matthias Georg

georgmatthias

Thanks for the reply.

First the a commend to pre packaging. The story is a bit longer please excuse.
When I work for a main contractor on a big residential project as an project manager interrior works my superviser had made an real bad contract with the client/investor. When the interrior works started the budget was already overriden by 2 million € and his second great idea was to hire some guys and buy the materials and do the drywall construction on our on. Bad idea for a main contractor. Also he ordered that I should let the material come at once. All right what can happen. As ordered I commisioned the material for about 10.000 m² drywall, the guys at the local reseller called me nuts when I said it has to be delievered all together. I wrote an letter to my supervisor about his insane order and let it go. Believe me I have never seen something like this before 16 trucks full of material in the middle of one of german biggest cities. Okay to shorten it ended in chaos including my supervisor having a night with the police.
Also we had to buy more material because the workers didn't care about usen it well.
But I learned from this. At another project in munich as project manager for an subcontractor (no main contractor was included in this project due to the city itself was the client). It came to an similiar situation. But there having no supervisor I talk to the reseller about packagen all the stuff for one floor seperatly, so i could use the building crane to manouver it directly in the floor. And guess what they did it, for free.

Maybe you thought i recomend to put material for lets say 10m² an pallett, thats not what i ment. I mentioned you could package the material for several "areas" or section more easely if you have an precise material bill.

Okay and second. The workers have to use drawing, because no one would know without any what to build. With using construction drawing I intended thta the worker will have something how to start (ex. do I take 43 or 23 cm for the first space between studs to minor the remain etc.) the normal pattern every worker does faster as I say ahhhh. And I do know that there are tolerable deviations, so the spacing between two stud can vary a little.
But if it comes up to claim managment or document the work I can tell you a main contractor is greedy. I have done it myself if i liked it or not. And rippen of money from subcontractors is not the nicest game. But this would give a subcontractor the possibility to play on the same level as the main contractor. These people have time you know, they get paid to give you the smallest amount of money possible. Subcontractors as i said often don't have the time, but hey computers may help.

Best regard Matthias Georg

georgmatthias

Okay to tell the truth I've brought the little software to the point to actual make the construction drawings. Rightnow I'm working on the penetrations (pipes etc.) and producing the material bill.

I included some screenshoots of the produced construction drawings for an example wall containing two doors and some woodpanels done with the software. I'm still in a testing and programming phase it's all in cm (metric). The different Frame-types are represented by different pattern.

Any comments and sugestions are welcome.

Best regards Matthias Georg

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Tim0282

Let's face the facts. The drywall is the least expensive part of the whole project, whether it is a house or a ten million dollar commercial. In commercial we use "precut" drywall. Whether the walls are ten feet tall or twelve feet tall or nine feet tall. That is about as feasibly possible to have precut rock. Don't you suppose?

RizzoMaryland

Blame them for everything that went wrong? Are you implying that you blame them for things that they were not at fault with?

Refuse mostly all of their claims? You wouldn't get away with that with me!!

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Rockhound

sic'em rizzo !!!! circular logic makes a good noose huh?

WyattCM

Hi George
I am new here, and this is only my second post.

But...here goes
You are over engineering this concept.

Since the dawn of the industrial revolution thoughtful people have tried to 'prefab' the process.
Usually with mixed [leaning toward substandard] results.

Drywall is a commodity
It is not meant to be perfect, but to quickly and more importantly cheaply cover wall cavities.
And it does this job better than any previous type of material.

If you want to gain more control over your finished project I would suggest you spend your clearly 1st rate mental energies into learning how the best drywallers estimate, deliver, hang and finish their work.
Once these lessons have been learned you will be in the position to more perfectly 'scope' the work to your bidders and then be able to more accurately let the work to the best bid [as opposed to the lowest]

my 2 cents

Tim0282

Good writing Wyatt.

georgmatthias

Please don't get me wrong, but does your quote relate to the my questions? If you want to negotiate about main contractors beating the hell out of you we can do this in a nother thread.

Best regards Matthias Georg

georgmatthias

Ah aren't you cute. Like rizzo, if you want to negotiate about this main contractor blames me blablabla topic, fine. But please do it in the new thread not here.

It will hurt - the main contractor blame me blablabla topic


Best regards Matthias Georg

thom

George, your images portray the problem well. You do not understand drywall installation at all. You've created a mess, hanging the rock the way you did. You've got butts against tapers, you've got joints where they are difficult to finish, you've got a mess.

Second, drywall becomes fragile when cut. It works best to hang, then cut, especially for door and window openings.

If you want to engineer something, spend a year doing the job first. Become a drywall hangar, then a taper, then maybe throw in stocking.

You're the guy who wants to tell others how to do their job before you have actually learned their job. You don't know what you don't know.