Old Drywaller, New Estimator

4x8

Hello Gentlemen, I've been doing drywall for quite sometime, always working for sombody else. I recently decided to go on my own with my old crew. And I couldn't believe that the hardest part of my job was the estimating part,especially when the job is larger than 5000 sqf.
My question is,do you recommend an estimating sofware or is there a way to estimate more acurately? any ideas greatly aprecciated. KEEP SHEETROCKING

Woz the Painter

If the job is 20,000 sq ft charge four times as much!

AtlanticWBConst

Hi,

My Business partner handles the Drywall side of our company. He has 2 methods that he uses to get a price. His formula works great. He's been using it since 1984.
He uses both of his methods, then compares his 2 figures and comes out with a price from that.

Where I am in the Boston, MA area, Drywallers are getting up to $2 per SF of finished drywall work - for the completed job. Also, Drywallers are making anywhere from $200 -$250, or as much as $300 per day. Depending on the area of the state(s)

So, these are his 2 methods:

METHOD #1.) Per square foot - He counts out how many sheets he will need and calculates that (a 12' x4' sheet is 48 SF) at $2.00 per SF. So one sheet is 48 X $2.00 = $96.00 per 12 foot sheet of finished work. Then he adds on for extras. i.e.: High ceilings, sky lights, alot of corner bead, Vaulted ceiling, etc.
Example: 80 , (12 foot) sheet job = 80 (sheets) X 48 (sf) = 3,840 SF total. So: At $2.00 SF price: 3,840 SF X $2.00 = $7680.00 , a closet added in: $150.00, or 2 skylights to drywall: add $50.00 a piece.
(Find out what the going sf price is for your area. You can ask around or call a Drywall supply place, most will know what drywallers are getting)

METHOD # 2.) Per Day: He figures out first: How much he feels is reasonable to make a day per worker. Then, figures out how long the job will take.
i.e. - 2 guys 10 days at $250.00 each a day = $5000.00
He then, calculates the cost of the materials. and adds that cost to the price of labor. If it's a big job, then he will add an allowance into it for - possibly being 'off' on his materials count or time it will take to complete.

Example: For Labor - 2 guys / 10 days @ $300.00 each ($6000.00) + Materials ($1500.00) + Extra $150.00 to do an added closet = TOTAL: $7650.00

Use both methods and compare any difference in the end price of both. Using Method #2, you might miss-calculate the amount of time the job will take, So Method #1 will help you to see the actual size of the job better.

Hope this gets you going and helps you to bring-in the work with a confident price!

-Build Well -

Drywall1

2 Bucks a foot. Are you serious? That is an awesome price. I'll tell you one thing if they are getting 2 bucks a foot, they are either really slow or only working 2-3 hours a day, to make 250-300 a day.
I would say you have a gold mine there.

__________________
Krieser Drywall
Krieser Insulation
www.KrieserDrywall.com

Woz the Painter

Sounds like the guy in another thread whose estimating program told him to charge $5.00 a sq. ft. for painting!

AtlanticWBConst

Guys,

Ignore the pricing figures and amounts....They are used for examples....
The point was to help the poster come up with some kind of formula to estimate with.

Now, getting Back to your thread high-jacking:

My figure of $2.00 was based on a recent conversation with my Biz. Partner. He handless the Drywall pricing. That sf price he mentioned was, regarding the Boston, MA (City) and South shore areas. A work acquaintence operates his Plastering and Drywall business there, and told him that figure.
I called my Biz. partner this morning to get the facts straight, he's currently setting up workers at some new condominiums in the North Shore area.

Anyways, this is what he sad:

He prices at $1.50 per SF for residential work right now. He told me; "That's a good price".
He tries to stick 'around' that price but will drop a little for a large job or large house. He said also, that he goes up (1.50 sf + )for commercial work.

I know that we just priced out work for remodeling offices in a hospital expansion in the Boston area. I had to review the plans, and they were a mind scrambler.

(As a side point:The plans call for Accoustic Sheetrock ('Quiet Rock'). There is only one supplier in the area carrying it now. The cost is about $127.00 per 4x8 sheet (5/8). It's about 15 offices and several conference rooms. Cost of sheetrock alone for the project: $18,000.00 )

3rd floor, alot of funky returns and pocket doors, etc. work cleanup....
We priced that out at $2.00 per sf and also added more for cleaning allowance, time to move tools up to 3rd floor and down, etc...

Aside from that-
My Honest Question: What are you guys getting per Square foot of finished Work in you areas ???
I'n Not at all trying to create a Pi$$ing Contest.

I'm just curious to see. I have no idea what the national average is.
I have no idea where we stand in the N.E. area, as compared to other parts.

Thanks

__________________
- Build Well -

Drywall1

My finished prices are 1/2 of the prices you listed above. It's tough right now in the Midwest. With material hitting .40 cents (mud, rock, etc) the prices you quoted make me a very jealous guy

Nate

__________________
Krieser Drywall
Krieser Insulation
www.KrieserDrywall.com

4x8

fortunately I've been busy lately. I have a couple of projects and I'm using an estimating technique that seems to be working so far. And is charging by the floor footage. exaample: For 1000 sqf house I'm charging $3.5 per sqf plus any extra work that needs to be done, like if the ceiling is above 10 ft; bullnose, arches, and special features like niches or closets. But i feel I'm missing something. Thank you for helping out guys.

andrewtlocke

Go out and spend the $50-$70 on the national estimating book that Craftsman Book Company does. It comes with a great software program that will update online with the averages for your locale. I use this on all of my jobs and adjust to what I think is fair. The estimating book and software gives me a good base to start at, and reminds me to "stay within exceptable limits" when bidding.

Happy Bidding!

__________________
~a
HAVE TOOLS, WILL TRAVEL

chip

The formula he use for estimating drywall is square footage of floor times 3.75 divided by 48 if you are using 12' sheets.

example 24' x 30' = 720sqf X 3.75 = 2700sqf / 48 = 56.25 12'sheets

2700 x $1.20 per sqf = $ 3240.00

kgphoto

chip,
How does that formula work? I mean, does it include just labor, or labor and materials including corner bead, tape and screws? Are these flat lids or catherdral? Does it include O&P? If so, how much?

As an example, a 22x25 room with flat ceiling.

94 linear feet of walls, x 8 foot wall height, no allowance for doors = 752
Plus 22 x 25 for ceiling = 550
total = 1302
Whereas your formula, 550 X 3.75 = 2062.5

Just trying to learn here.

Thanks

Kirk

chip

KGPHOTO


HE USE THIS FORMUAL FOR ESTIMATING NEW HOMES, PRICE INCLUDES MATERIAL , LABOR, PROFIT AND OVERHEAD. SQF PRICE VARY BY LOCATION.

EXAMPLE 1st FLOOR 24 X 30 = 720 SQF X 3.75 DIVIDED BY 48 = 56.25 12' SHEETS. IF FLOOR PLAN IS OPEN SUBTRACT A SHEET OR TWO IF CUT UP ADD A SHEET OR TWO. THIS FORMUAL IS FOR FLAT CEILING BUT YOU CAN JUST ADD FOR CATHDRAL

kgphoto

Thank you Chip.

I thought it was something like that.

What were the percentages for O&H that were built into that formula?

I will compare it to a job I have coming up to see how close it is.

chip

Kgphoto My p&o is about 28 to 32 percent depending on the job.

RockStar

From the responses I have read, pricing around the country sure is different.
Unless you are paying your guys by the hour, hangers are paid by the board and finishers are either paid the same or by the square foot.

First you must know what you are paying your men. Once that is determined, here is a quick way to get a price until you can field measure the job.
Square footage of floor space multiply by 3.5. This will give you an idea of square footage of drywall. (example 2500sf house X 3.5 = 8750sf of drywall) With 8ft ceilings, this formula will get you pretty close.

Hangers are paid by the board (48sf) 8750sf divided by 48 is 182 boards. Figure what you have to pay for material, hangers and finishers, then add profit and overhead usually 10% and 10% depending on region.

This formula works great for over-the-phone shoppers. If they are serious ask them to call back when the insulation is scheduled.

Hope this helps.....Bill

kgphoto

Prices sure do seem to vary. Here a 4x8 sheet of drywall is $8.00 + and the mud is $6.00/25 pounds for powder and $10 per 5 gal.

Screws are almost $3 a pound. When I think of how much labor it would take me to drywall a garage let's say, and the number of return trips etc, I can't even begin to think of charging .75/sf.

I also am amazed to hear that guys can hang 3 1200 sf houses in a day! That must be a big reason why I can't charge those rates.

I figure one board (4x8) every 15 minutes, screwed off, per man. This includes 1-2 outlet and switch. Large open spaces, much less and walls with lots of plumbing(bathroom/kitchen) more. This appears to be about half the speed of some of these posters. In remodeling it goes even slower due to working around the furniture and hallways etc.

Adding second guy does not double the volume of work. I think an idea team is three. Two to hang and one to screw off and cut pieces to hang.

Gordo

You have the right idea kg. Remodeling is always more expensive.

__________________
Looks like some pros were here.

DUSE

Going rate around here (S.Jersey)
The workers get
8' sheets =$6-10 to hang and $6-10 to finish.
3 guys, Glued and screwed ,60 sheets on a catharal ceailing (wrap 2 beams) 9 hours
The contractor charges anywhere between $60 -100 a board depending on ????

DaveH

Ok Ok Ok!
I am a drywall estimator. I have been for 20 years and have an independent estimating company. I bid over 20 million a year in jobs. The methods described here are all dangerous! VERY DANGEROUS. You may get lucky with a square foot of floor space calculator, but it doesn't allow for how many feet of walls there are in a house/building. You can have two houses with the same Sq Ft of floor space and a wide difference in wall footage. The way to do this properly is to measure all your exterior walls and take them times the height. make sure to measure through you doors and windows!. This will give you your Sq ft of drywall for the exterior walls. Then do the same for your interior walls except take the total length of you walls times the height times 2. this will give you your footage for your interior walls. If there is green board or Durock being used use the same meathod for these them minus them from your total. Once you have you walls you measure your ceilings. always round up th e the next even foot I.E. 9' becomes 10'. Add all these up and you have your ceiling footage. Next if you have cathedrals or volume ceilings add your extra footage for these. You know how much you pay per board or sq ft for installation. So use these amounts to figure your labor. If you pay more for ceiling hanging you already have your qty break-out for this same for high work in cathedrals or volume areas. I even break out the soffit seperate because you usually will pay more for these. Now for the materials. You get a quote from your supplier for the board to make sure you are covered. You take your Sq Ft of board and divide it by 1500 for the rolls of 500' tape you need or 750 for the rolls of 250' tape. Then you take your total footage and divide it by 500 this will give you your total numer of boxes/buckets of mud for the job. Figure one screw/nail per foot. Now you have your labor and materials you can do the final step which is adding Profit and overhead. You should never bid a job without knowing EXACTLY how much Material - Labor - and Profit you have in it. This is the only way to estimate any job. Don't forget to add in your cornerbead scissor lifts or scaffolding as well as any supervision you may have.
Dave

kgphoto

Dave,

Thank you for your in depth response. I will try your method on a job I am estimating now and see what I come up with.

In case you want to compare, it is a 20x22 garage, walls only, to 8 feet(technically slightly under due to the foundation stem wall. Each wall will require one rip of about 6 inches.) except one gable on the 20 foot back wall that goes an additional 42 inches to the bottom of the roof.

One 2'-6" passage door and one double car garage door(16x7) on the front 20 foot wall. 5/8 type X. I will be applying "L" bead to the tops of the wall on all sides including the one gable. I am leaning toward Trimtex with tear off bead for that.

Later, I will case the passage door opening, base and shoe and prime and paint. So this bid is just for the drywall.

I expect I will get one materials break out for bidding and one for actual doing the job? What I mean is, I could bid it all at 12 or 8 foot sheets vased on square footage of wall area, but when I actually do it, order mixed sizes to reduce waste. The largest I can get here is 12 foot lengths.

Kirk