Monster Mesh And Apla Tech

theblones

Hi all i'm the blones based in wales in the uk. I run a firm of plasterers over here and most of our work is external rendering. We use plastering machines for this and also do inside plastering. We can spray a one coat paintable plaster onto blockwork or a 2mm gypsum plaster over board work. On boards we finish approx 70-130 mts per man per day.
Anyway we are starting to get involved in taping and have recently bought the apla tech cfs system i was wondering how you guys get on with it over there. I have the pneumatic with the coaters and find them very difficult so i have bought the box handles.and a 10 " box and the taper and a big spatula for the finish coat instead of a 12" box. What system do you guys do over here that is quick.
Also i am looking at a monster mesh taper and was wondering if they are any good and can you advance tape with them. cmon boyos gimme advice

dryrocker27

hello there Blones,

We are a drywall outfit, not much plastering in our area of Virginia, USA

Nobody here using the alpha tech tools, however, we are currently using all tape tech tools and find it quite abit faster that hand work.

There is a learning curve with them. Make sure the compound is not to stiff or it will really work you

__________________
Robert

theblones

hi there rob. do you actually use a monster mesh fibre glas mesh applicator and if so is it any good and can you advance the mesh tape like a bazooka

Tony M

Hi Mate.
We use the CFS system with the boxes here in sunny Cornwall and it is awesome.Yesterday me and my mate topped off a huge 4 bed house, all the flat joints, butt joints and internals in less than 2 hrs. We have had alloy spacers made for the boxes which only allow them an inch of play, which cuts the weight down. We have the Graco G-Max 5900 HD and the 90ltr hopper. Have got the coaters but they are **** compared to the boxes. We also use Monster Mesh. When they are working, they are great, BUT, they tend to jam and both mine and my mates have screws missing and plastic bits broken off. They have only lasted about 18 months. Tapetech have stopped making them as they don't sell well in the US as they mainly paper tape there. Bought ours cheap from Masom Drywall Supply in Texas but they no longer keep them (asked last week). They are big money over here. We only paid £260 for 2 inc shipping, plus £48 vat and duty. The Monster Mesh works just like a Bazooka but with Mesh.

theblones

hi tony
when you say topped off do you mean a 12" box. the boys at wetdrywall spray the last coat and flatten it with a 22" blade it looks good. do you get a good finish with the 12 box that dont flash when painted. Is the 5900 a petrol pump i just got the airlessco sl1500.
i have not done hell of a lot of tape finishing and was wondering what sort of finished mterage can be achieved in a week.
Also what system are you using this time of year, do you have the tape applicator and are you using setting compound, if so do you put it on with a box or by hand

Tony M

Yes, the final coat is 12" boxed. If the boarding is 'something like it' then this is a good finish. We prefer to seal our work with drywall sealer before the painter starts. That way flashing is minimized. We have seen the way Wetndrywall spray the last coat and go over it with a big 'flipper' but we weren't impressed. You may as well spray the lot if your joints are going to be 2 feet wide. The sprayed joints looked untidy too. Nice straight boxed joints, that's what we like. The 5900 is petrol. That way we know there is always enough power to run it. You can never rely on site power, and who wants to lug around a 13hp genny.We don't have a cfs taper but are going to get one soon as it is the bollocks. We have one on the mud head, one putting the tape in, then drop back to rol-plow and pick out the corners. We use Joint Filler or Easifill to 1st coat, by hand, then 10" & 12 " box. Sometimes we do 2 coats of Easifill and a 12" box. Depends how busy we are and how soon we can get back to sand, as this time of year, drying is a pain.

theblones

hi tony
its good to talk to someone else about the tools and systems. i agree with what you say about sprayin the final, and it lookin scruffy, but i also see that the further out the joint is the less chance of flashin.
i admit to being a tool buff and always dive in when buyin tools is concerned hence the full pneumatic system in the garage, i just couldnt get on with the coaters, goto be honest the taper looked a real pain but i bought one and gotta be honest if you use it with noone looking and get on with it its great,you need 2 people behind you.
would you ever put fast set in a box and would it be quicker. could you bed the tape whip over with a 10 box in fast set then over with a 12. what you using for your angles.
i looked at the mark v but the boys said a 110v wont do it and i couldnt get a 240v for the same price then a 7900 but i didnt fancy noise or fumes on our bigger jobs so i went for airlessco 1500
also how little sanding does it reqire with the box finish
and also have you seen that level 5 primer sprayplast it looks real good and its not much more pricey than primer but leaves a superior finish that claims to only need 1 coat to finish

Tony M

I only use the pnuematic apla-tech stuff for internals on smaller jobs now because it is so quick, but I fill my canon with a normal drywall pump. I use a Cinta pump which pumps 50% more mud than a standard one as it has a 6" stroke as opposed to a 4" one. My 10 gallon pump has only been used a few times, so there's £1200 worth of crap sat in my garage, (2 grand if you count the coaters). There is hardly any sanding with the box finish. The joints are dead flat, and you save on material too.Have seen some of this spray drywall on site. Looks ok but would rather have skim. It's still not a 'hard' finish. We tried Easifill through our normal 8" box, over scrim. It worked ok, but you have to be quick and set a time limit. It does use the gear up quickly though. Did the butt joints first and let them set, then straight down with the tapered edges to avoid any blending in.

theblones

hi tony
you were saying you still use a cannon on smaller jobs is that because its too much hassle to get your airless pump out. Would you say your output has increasd since you got the cfs. Another question about the monster mesh. do yo have to physically engage the corner creaser by hand as oposed to a lever on a bazzoka and what is that wheel for on top its a little black wheel that lines up with the creaser.
the spray plast is not a plaster its a mixture of the 2. You need a big sprayer to apply it but it goes on after sanding and is sprayed and left. it gives you a smooth white finish or tinted if you want and is over all the wall. it compares to a skimmed finish but only requires one final coat of paint. so you can offer it instead of a sealer at a bit more money cos you are leaving the job closer to finishing

Tony M

The airless and the hopper combined takes up quite a bit of space, and the airless itself weighs over 60kgs so is a two man operation to get it in and out of the van. Because it is so quick, on a smaller job, you would catch yourself up and end up going home early (which is all very nice), but the point of investing all that money on equipment is to see a substantial return in profits. To really benefit from this machine, you could do with a couple of thousand square metres at a time to go at, which equates to maybe 3 or 4 large houses, ready at the same time. As you probably realise, that doesn't happen. The most we have done at one time was a 750 sq mtr house, boxed and internals topped by lunchtime.
The Monster Mesh corner bit flips over and clips in place. The white wheel is the creaser for the tape. It is a great tool for plasterers for scrimming before skimmimg. We only use it for scrim on flat joints as we paper tape internals. The other narrow metal arm that flips ove, to me, does nothing. We just keep it back out of the way all the time.

theblones

hi tony,
when you say you boxed and corner by 12 do you mean 12 box the flats and the buts. when you go over the flats first of all do you use mesh or paper and if its mesh do you go over it with a 10 box and if so what position would you have that crown set for a butt, would you run down the centre of the but then go either side on the next coat. and what position do you set it for that. what about your nails maaaaan do you coat them or strike em with a knife. would you say its quicker to 1st coat by hand with a trowel or mix up fast set and go for it. We do work on bigger sites but have mostly done plastering, we even spray our skim coat and thats pretty quick. But i am looking at drywall as something i could do whilst running the rest of the firm.With plastering i am stuck there once i start a set or whatever. What sort of meterage should i be able to do a week finished ready for payment.ie i can skim about 70 mts a day by hand

Tony M

Blones,
We final coated the butts and straight joints, and put the final coat (3 1/2" angle head) on all the internals, in a 750 sq mtr (wall and ceiling area combined) 5 bed 3 storey house, by lunchtime. We were using Gyproc Pro Mix Lite readymixed compond. We always use setting compound i.e. Joint Filler or Easifill to first coat the flats, butts and metal beads (thin coat drywall beads), by hand. You could go for it with a box, on top of the scrim but that is really a job for 2. We put the internals in with paper tape and joint cement. I think fast set is too brittle to use in internals, esp on timber framed buildings. The amount of crown really depends on the boarding. If it's good, then the joint can be dead flat. If not then use the box wide open or do it by hand. The only time our joints are more than 12" wide, is when the boarding is crap. We use a 3" nail spoter for 2nd & 3rd coats on nails. One swipe and the line of screws are done. 1st coat on nails is by hand with filler.
Did a job in Bristol a couple weeks back, in a new office block. 3 mtr high walls, only 300 sq mtrs, 2 days jointing, 1/2 day sanding, on own with monster mesh and columbia boxes ,and pneumatic canon for internals.

theblones

hi tony,
We were only doin the screws twice would you say 3 times is better. When you use a nail spotter do you mean the apla tech 3 " spotter. i used this on the last job i done but felt it may have been a little bit too much material i put on, mind you i didnt thin the mud down like they say to. So you would keep your cannon then cause i was thinking of selling that lot. I dunno if i been dreaming but i was setting myself targets of about 200mts a daythat just need sanding.Thats the sort of money i would look to earn with my plastering machines. i realise every jobs different and i dont mind doin longer days, we are used to 8-6 . So you use easy fill all year round. When you say boxing is a 2 man job with easyfil why is that.
Not to sound big headed or anything but the reason i bought these tools and made the investments was to earn the same sort of money that we are earning on the machine. ( between 3 or 6 hundred a day) i know it all depends on the job and the price you get and the hours you do, but i figure they are big investments not made by everyday tapers.and that is the sort of return to expect, the tapers down here are averaging 1000 a week by hand

Tony M

We use normal nail spotters. Northstar & Premier. Decided this morning that the Apla-tech pneumatic set up is going on ebay. The generator wouldn't power my compressor so used mates mudrunner instead. No hassle and AS quick. Getting shot of coaters too, ****ing rubbish. On the Easifill thru boxes, if one man charges on putting it on, the other can do any touch ups and blending. All mix is used quickly and no waste. On your own, dropping back to do touch ups means gear is going off.
You could earn loads if you have the meterage ahead of you. The sky's the limit. We only seem to get between 500 & 1000 mtrs at a time on any one job. Hardly worth getting the airless out for.

theblones

hi tony
i tried my original compressor on a 2.2kva genny and it didnt work but i also got a little 1.5 hp makita (one hand job very lite) that will run on a standard 2.2genny. Are the nail spotters from apla no good. I found one of those cinta pumps. When you say its not worth getting the airless out is that because its so quick? I was thinking on a 500m job would you be better of on your own, you could have your gear knocked up run all your mesh then coat it.
then with the taper run all your angle and finish em with the plough or flusher have you ever used the taper i only used it a few times and it is as quick as you can move your arms. i liked your idea using the cannon for the angles without the apla pump i would like to sell mine but am in 2 minds now you told me about the cannon for angles on smaller jobs Ps never seems to be any american help here does it

Tony M

When Andy from Wetndrywall delivered my Apla-tech stuff he did not recommend the nail spotter, and watching the videos, you can see it puts too much gear on.

Best thing for you to do, go to UK Spreads website, Join and PM me and I will give you my no so you can give me a call. Saves all this typing.

Tony.

theblones

banned from uk spreads there a bunch of coks on there. we were all on ebuild but defected to lordanddowning.co.uk its the bollocks. there is a chatroom aswell and all the boys on there are good laugh. one is from down your way in west country. dont know why i am banned from ukspreads cos i never posted anything on there maybe my ebuild rep proceeds me .hope to see you at lad

Tony M

Registered with them. Waiting for confirmation email.
Had a go on the cfs taper at Wetndrywall. Going to get one next year, got 10000 mtrs coming up fast track. Hell of a tool. Can use it pneumatically too you know as long as it has the filler nozzle fitting. My Apla pump has got to go. The only thing is, I reckon it is worthless. Feel sick at paying £1200+ vat for it and giving it away. The cinta pump is great. With the high filler spout, there is less bending down. I don't see the point in getting the big machine set up for a couple hundred metres. More time spent cleaning etc than DOING.

theblones

you should be on there soon. i was looking at the cinta on f tools. can you tell me what i need alltogether with that. Whats the 8 inch box for tony it seems mean not to have a full set. Say you were goin at a 3 bed house 400m on your own would you get the pump out then or dont you think its worth doin it on your own. Is there that much cleaning then, it only takes 10 min with a plastering machine with 40m of pipe on. i just bought the sl1500 its not too big and i would just run it from a 10 gallon bucket that aint much gear to carry. the petrol pump you got is big with the hopper.
tell me what system you would do to finish a 400m house on youre own

theblones

just looking on uk spreads and see that someone talked the guy out of buying my t series pump and bits. I told him that we had to charge vat and he went cold. I said leave the nailspotter and a spare cannon and when he had the rest of the mney we would send it up but he wasnt interested. I Think the coaters do work but you have to be 100% confident with them and learn them. We had allot of joints that needed no wiping atall. i noticed some people on here say they are great and others say they are crap and some use part of the kit but not all. that usually means the stuff works but you need to learn it. just like plastering machines. The problem is the wet drywall boys cant use them either so you cant see it working. If you seen it working properly on one of your own jobs you would prob keep trying but we just dont have the time. If they were no good they wouldnt be able to sell any i think. I wish i just got the junior pump at the time and a taper