Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3

 
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:59 PM   #1
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Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I have been browsing around here for about a week & i thought i would sign up. I did not see anyone post about this topic, & i am curious to hear what others might have to say. I have been turning coat closets into a laundry closets in an apartment complex in Tempe az since march of last year. Work is slow around here & i am happy to be working at all, the pay isnt too bad so i havent minded doing the same thing over & over & over & over for 9 months. After we frame & drywall the old doorway & frame & drywall the new doorway there is a fair amount of mud to put up before we spray & knockdown texture the new sheetrock.

Its about 3-4 hours of mudwork to get it ready to spray, and before i was using a mix of 50/50 20 minute/ +3, it was 6-ish hours before we could spray texture. There is just me & a helper, I am not self employed & i have not been doing drywall for long, i started doing it myself about 6 months ago but i like it (hence me visiting a drywall website LOL)! I just learned about mixing 20 minute with +3 a few moths ago & what a time saver it is.

So my question is.... do alot of people out there mix hot mud with regular mud (i dont know the correct name for "regular" mud,, we call it texture mud, but i dont want to sound too much like a dumbass)?

Last edited by Axecutioner-B; 05-11-2010 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Mis-speelings :|
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:28 PM   #2
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


Never heard of it getting mixed, and i guess i dont understand why the heck anybody would do it??? Hot mud is made to dry fast without shrinking/cracking. Bucket/bag mud is a slow cure...what's to be gained from mixing...it sure the heck will not slow down the cure process of the hot mud, and the hot mud wont increase the speed of drying of the premix mud...so why not just use each for what it's designed to do??

For all your doing, stick with the 20 minute mud, for a standard bathroom it's pretty easy to tape, mud, texture and get the first coat of primer on all in one day using 20 minute mud for EVERYTHING...even the texture. Just gotta be on your game, but since this is about all we use for small jobs, we adjust our speed button in our britches and have 1 guy doing all the mixing, cleaning, mixing, cleaning and having trays of mud lined up ready to go so we can whip a standard sized room out lickety split. The only time i could ever see a person using slow mud is when they're taping off an entire house, room addition so working time is greatly extended and then we've used it in the past on non time pressing jobs to do a final "feathering of edges" to eliminate sanding completely from the drywall work...many hours spent learning kknife manipulation to insure lack of "hard work, ie sanding" later.

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Old 01-27-2010, 08:06 PM   #3
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


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Never heard of it getting mixed, and i guess i dont understand why the heck anybody would do it??? Hot mud is made to dry fast without shrinking/cracking. Bucket/bag mud is a slow cure...what's to be gained from mixing...it sure the heck will not slow down the cure process of the hot mud, and the hot mud wont increase the speed of drying of the premix mud...so why not just use each for what it's designed to do??

For all your doing, stick with the 20 minute mud, for a standard bathroom it's pretty easy to tape, mud, texture and get the first coat of primer on all in one day using 20 minute mud for EVERYTHING...even the texture. Just gotta be on your game, but since this is about all we use for small jobs, we adjust our speed button in our britches and have 1 guy doing all the mixing, cleaning, mixing, cleaning and having trays of mud lined up ready to go so we can whip a standard sized room out lickety split. The only time i could ever see a person using slow mud is when they're taping off an entire house, room addition so working time is greatly extended and then we've used it in the past on non time pressing jobs to do a final "feathering of edges" to eliminate sanding completely from the drywall work...many hours spent learning kknife manipulation to insure lack of "hard work, ie sanding" later.
I learned this technique from what i would consider a first class mudslinger. He says the mud is easier to work with than straight 20 minute (it really goes on like straight texture mud) & the 50/50 mix turns it into 28 or 29 minute (his exact words LOL). There is NO sanding involved in this (these apartment projects), there just isnt time to allow the mud to get far enough along to be sand-able. Knock out your knife lines, do the 2nd coat, knock out those knife lines & then texture. I am just throwing this out there because mudding has gotten much faster, thus making the job go much faster. I have tried pushing straight 20 minute for these apartments & towards the end of the pan it is "hard work". Where as with this technique there is no "hard work". I appreciate the feedback IHI
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:37 PM   #4
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


Hot mud will accelerate any portland based product and I've used it plenty on plaster and stucco repairs etc. Sounds like it works good on regular drywall mud too. I'll have to try it some day...

I do know that in the days before
hot mud/fast mud guys would strip the paper off drywall, grind up the gypsum and use that as an accelerator. I think it worked pretty well.

Oh, and it only takes a half a cup of hot mud to set off a five gallon bucket of stucco.

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Old 01-27-2010, 09:38 PM   #5
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I will mix plus 3 with durabond. As far as dry time it seems to speed it up a bit and is harder than 3 alone. 3 is a very very soft set but it goes on beautifully in my opinion.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:57 PM   #6
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


A few years ago I was working for a carpenter who hired in a union taper to tape a basement we finished. He used a mix of plus3 and hotmud.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:23 AM   #7
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


There's something else I'll have to try when I have nothing better to do.

As a matter of fact I'm going to try it right now. I'll be loading truck in a few minutes and I'll mix a batch and see how hard it is before I pull out of the driveway.

Will fill you in tomorrow.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:25 AM   #8
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


When you use Hot mud and it sets up in your pan before you can use it all, well hate to tell you your to slow. I can mix up a half a 5 of 20 and have it all on the walls before it sets Good luck and if this works for you mixing the two together then go for it.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:05 AM   #9
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


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When you use Hot mud and it sets up in your pan before you can use it all, well hate to tell you your to slow. I can mix up a half a 5 of 20 and have it all on the walls before it sets Good luck and if this works for you mixing the two together then go for it.
Doesnt the kind of mudwork you are doing have something to do with how fast you can put it on ?

I mean when i am filling in bigger areas that need alot of mud i can put it on quick enough i think, but with more detailed final coats a little extra time seems to make a big difference.

Im off to the apartment complex now,,, life out of buckets for me... every tool in a bucket ,, every piece of material in a bucket,,, 3 flights of stairs ... here we go again
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:00 AM   #10
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


Quote:
Originally Posted by Axecutioner-B View Post
I learned this technique from what i would consider a first class mudslinger. He says the mud is easier to work with than straight 20 minute (it really goes on like straight texture mud) & the 50/50 mix turns it into 28 or 29 minute (his exact words LOL). There is NO sanding involved in this (these apartment projects), there just isnt time to allow the mud to get far enough along to be sand-able. Knock out your knife lines, do the 2nd coat, knock out those knife lines & then texture. I am just throwing this out there because mudding has gotten much faster, thus making the job go much faster. I have tried pushing straight 20 minute for these apartments & towards the end of the pan it is "hard work". Where as with this technique there is no "hard work". I appreciate the feedback IHI
Guess I was not paying attention yesterday to the mix ratio. My test is still soft this morning. Now that I read you post again it makes sense.

Seems like a gooy mess,how do you go about mixing that concoction.........without spewing powder everywhere???

1/2 bag 20 to 1/2 bucket plus3 (50/50)???????????

Why not do a nice first coat with 45,clean up,get a fan blowing,haul out debris,eat a snack, and then do a second skim coat with 20.

Like Frank says ''If it works for you'' go for it.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:17 AM   #11
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I have seen mud mixed like this for years. Seems to work good I think one of the advantages is that you can fill up your joint with one pass and is will set up fine and quickly. I have also seen a little dish washing soap added to smooth it out a little. Has anybody else seen soap added?
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:03 PM   #12
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


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Guess I was not paying attention yesterday to the mix ratio. My test is still soft this morning. Now that I read you post again it makes sense.

Seems like a gooy mess,how do you go about mixing that concoction.........without spewing powder everywhere???

1/2 bag 20 to 1/2 bucket plus3 (50/50)???????????

Why not do a nice first coat with 45,clean up,get a fan blowing,haul out debris,eat a snack, and then do a second skim coat with 20.

Like Frank says ''If it works for you'' go for it.
Well, being that i am an apartment dweller & my life is run out of buckets i carry around 1 bucket of +3 that is already mixed (& i cover it when its not in use) & i carry around 1 bucket of 20 minute (& i cover it when its not in use), I dont have a need for alot of mud to be mixed at one time (like 1/2 bag of 20 to 1/2 box +3 for example).

1st) put 2 big scoops (with a wall board bucket scoop) of 20 minute by itself in a 2 gallon bucket, i use the small mix-it bit (for sale in the walboard display in home depot for like $9 bucks), mix this up with a high speed drill to a nice consistency

2nd) add 3 BIG scoops of the premixed +3
3rd) mix it all together with the high speed drill & the small mixit bit

This produces about 2 full pans of good mud that will be going off about the time the 2nd pan is getting empty.

I cant see how 1/2 a bag of twenty mixed with 1/2 box of +3 turned in to some thing gooey, but maybe because i live in arizona & the weather is never freezing during work hours that has something to do with it (?). If i did a mix like that here it woulda turned in to rock in about half an hour (maybe sooner). I haven't experimented with bigger amounts at one time, because the apartments i am working in dont really need that much mixed at one time, 2 pans is a good amount at one time for what i am doing at the moment. The same guy that showed me the 50/50 mix has mentioned that 1 scoop of 5 minute added to a box of +3 will set off a box of +3 in about 30 minutes, but i haven't tried that for myself so i cant say.

as for 45 minute,, for what i am doing believe it or not 45 minute goes off too slow.

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Old 01-29-2010, 07:06 PM   #13
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


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I have seen mud mixed like this for years. Seems to work good I think one of the advantages is that you can fill up your joint with one pass and is will set up fine and quickly. I have also seen a little dish washing soap added to smooth it out a little. Has anybody else seen soap added?
I have ready about it here & that is the first ive heard of it.
When would adding soap be useful ? And what does it do? I am quite curious.

Last edited by Axecutioner-B; 01-29-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:48 AM   #14
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


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Originally Posted by Axecutioner-B View Post
Well, being that i am an apartment dweller & my life is run out of buckets i carry around 1 bucket of +3 that is already mixed (& i cover it when its not in use) & i carry around 1 bucket of 20 minute (& i cover it when its not in use), I dont have a need for alot of mud to be mixed at one time (like 1/2 bag of 20 to 1/2 box +3 for example).

1st) put 2 big scoops (with a wall board bucket scoop) of 20 minute by itself in a 2 gallon bucket, i use the small mix-it bit (for sale in the walboard display in home depot for like $9 bucks), mix this up with a high speed drill to a nice consistency

2nd) add 3 BIG scoops of the premixed +3
3rd) mix it all together with the high speed drill & the small mixit bit

This produces about 2 full pans of good mud that will be going off about the time the 2nd pan is getting empty.

I cant see how 1/2 a bag of twenty mixed with 1/2 box of +3 turned in to some thing gooey, but maybe because i live in arizona & the weather is never freezing during work hours that has something to do with it (?). If i did a mix like that here it woulda turned in to rock in about half an hour (maybe sooner). I haven't experimented with bigger amounts at one time, because the apartments i am working in dont really need that much mixed at one time, 2 pans is a good amount at one time for what i am doing at the moment. The same guy that showed me the 50/50 mix has mentioned that 1 scoop of 5 minute added to a box of +3 will set off a box of +3 in about 30 minutes, but i haven't tried that for myself so i cant say.

as for 45 minute,, for what i am doing believe it or not 45 minute gs off too slow.
Now I get it......You mix a normal batch of 20 and then add +3 , and then mix the two together. I put the powder right in the +3 the other morning. no wonder why it made a mess.

That's one more bucket (+3) to drag around in my opinion. And your gaining a few more minutes of working time? Sorry, but I don't see what your really gaining by doing it that way. But it is your system for that job and it works for you.

By the way, I've mixed soap in my premix for yrs. 1 squirt/5gal. fo me. tools clean easier,smooths mud some,but when you sand it will burn your eyes.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:10 AM   #15
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I have to drag the +3 around anyway because i use it for the knock down texture.

I probably realistically drag around 15 buckets as it is so i dont even notice if any are not needed at this point.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:40 PM   #16
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I mentioned mixing fast setting mud with regular mud on here a couple years ago, and everyone thought it was a bad idea...now look at all the people doing it..huh. Me and the crew I'm working for are doing a multi million dollar home right now and we are skimming and evening out every inch of drywall. In some spots we have to put it on pretty thick. So we mix a bit of concrete fill powder in a bucket of regular mud and use that, it sets up faster, less shrinkage and is easier (and cheaper) to use than straight concrete fill. And where we would normally have to wait a week for the regular mud that is that thick to dry, we can coat it the next day. I have also used 20 min mud mixed with regular mud to speed up a job, it's easier to work with and easier to sand than using straight 20 min. These concoctions are best used for the first coat only, with two coats of just regular mud to finish.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:26 PM   #17
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


Raven, haven't seen you on here in ages. You've been busy, it sounds. Good for you!
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:30 PM   #18
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I looked at the pictures you posted today. Interesting round area in the one picture. Nice house!
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:36 PM   #19
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I actually met a contractor on this site and moved across the province to work for him, that was a year ago and been so busy working and learning from him, I haven't been on here much! Yea that house in the picture was 20,000 sq ft of drywall (most of the ceilings weren't drywall so was a huge house) and that stairway took forever to do then they changed their minds later and covered it in a wood veneer..so all the work for nothing!
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:14 PM   #20
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Re: Mixing Hot Mud With Plus 3


I often wondered...the manufacturer says do not mix the two togeather, but if people are having good luck and it has proven to last a year without call backs, I am up for it.
The plus 3 is so easy to work with...I am able to one coat everything because it sets up very fast if the coats are thin, no drag marks, puddles or ridges.
I typically do a 4 coat finish, which leaves hardly any sanding on small projects...adding hot mud would make it a dream I am sure, just kinda leary about mixing different chemical compounds togeather without some kind of blessing Guess I will do a little homework before trying it

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