I lost a stucco repair repaint to a roofing Company - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Frankawitz · 08-05-2009, 05:14 AM

I get a call yesterday telling me that the people who are doing the roof are going to repair the stucco and then repaint the exterior

Roofers Paint and Stucco now

, I guess now a days you have to be a Jack of all Trades and a Master of nothing. I guess half azz is better then doing it right

Kuba · 08-05-2009, 09:31 AM

maybe they market skills they are good at? I do the same thing... Im a painter, but if customers ask me questions about things I inform them and sometimes get more work. Tile, hardwood floors, custom wall partitions, custom bars, but never things I cannot do... I dont do windows, sidding or roofing =)

NICKPAUS · 08-05-2009, 05:00 PM

Was fixing some electrical yesterday and homeowner is telling her mom what a great electrician I am. I mentioned I am a builder with a General license just fixing her electric as a favor for the other contractor she hired. She handed me some blueprints and says I have been looking for someone to build this for 2 years. You never know ones ability until you ask. He could of owned a painting co before he got into roofing. I have done it all at one point in time and if it is a refferal I will do it. Not out trying to steal work from any subs just making my customers happy.

Elite_Drywall · 08-05-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankawitz

I get a call yesterday telling me that the people who are doing the roof are going to repair the stucco and then repaint the exterior

Roofers Paint and Stucco now

, I guess now a days you have to be a Jack of all Trades and a Master of nothing. I guess half azz is better then doing it right

According to your trades, you are one of those jacks.

Frankawitz · 08-05-2009, 06:21 PM

No Elite, I do Plaster/drywall/paint. I can do other things but I stay in my trade I don't go and bid plumbing jobs just because I can do plumbing or roofing I do what I'm good at Plaster and Painting some drywall, now if I do a job and there some electrical that needs to be done then I can do that, but I aint gonna wire a whole house. but whatever. like I said most guys will do anything even if they aint in that trade.

Donnie631 · 08-05-2009, 06:23 PM

I am not a jack of all trades, but I am diverse in what I can do on a professional level. I do a great job with exterior work, vinyl siding, windows and doors, etc, but I have been doing hardwood and tile floors, bath and kitchen remodels, and other associated work for years, with all of the tools and know how for each specialty I am knowledgeable in. I do not offer a false sense of know-how to get a job, all of my work is on a referral basis.

I agree, the roofer could have been a painter, but I'd venture a guess that it's just more money to be made in this difficult time for all of our trade professions.

Donnie631 · 08-05-2009, 06:25 PM

nvm

**Ed the Roofer** · 08-05-2009, 11:33 PM

This particular Roofer did a fair job of painting, or so I think......

http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/ed-painter-42466/

Ed

tekwrytr · 08-08-2009, 09:54 AM

For the newbies:
The days of one-dimensional remodeling or construction work are almost gone. Picking up a week's worth of experience, repeating it several hundred times, and calling it a "trade" is misguided.

Small example: many "career" roofers are only shinglers, only hot moppers, only cap sheet floppers, only felt machine pullers, only hose draggers for a spray person--yet all adamantly proclaim their experience as somehow enviable. By the same token, many other trades consist of 90-95% unskilled labor, or labor that can be expertly performed with minimal experience. College students have been working summers in construction for years, and most can equal or out-perform the more "experienced" personnel after a few days of "do it this way."

Further, construction is not rocket science. It doesn't take years of experience to nail down a shingle, install a metal stud curtain wall, float a concrete slab, or plaster stucco. I don't understand why it should be unusual for a skilled construction tradesperson to be multi-talented. It seems rather the reverse should be the anomaly--a one-dimensional construction tradesperson who is clueless about all other trades.

In business, packages sell. Hire a roofer to roof, a plasterer to stucco, and a painter to paint, and prices go way up. Smart homeowners realize that, and hire the contractors who are competent to complete projects--not just the portion they "specialize" in.

Has anyone noticed how many "general" contractors suddenly started bidding roofing projects when new construction hit the skids? And how many carpenters are up on roofs with nailguns pretending to be roofers? Have there been a sudden rash of roof failures because the roofs were not installed by "roofing specialists"? Nope. Kind of makes you think, though.

How secure are the future career prospects for one-dimensional contractors and tradespeople? It might be time to consider increasing your skill to the point that only extreme specialists can compete with you, or to extend your capabilities by becoming competent at other trades.

Thanks

A+ Texture · 08-08-2009, 08:56 PM

You may have a point, I've seen lots of jobs done by proffessionals that I could have done better. But when you get licensed to be a roofer, your not licensed to be a painter and so on. They really should stick to what they're licensed for.

Frankawitz · 08-09-2009, 06:27 AM

Tek, That sounds about right now a days, you have to be able to do anything, So I'm going to start doing Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC and whatever else I can under bid the Licensed guy

and I will bet a dollar to a donut I hear nothing but your a Unlicensed Hack. But hey I know how to do these trades so why should the Homeowner care it's all about the price, and here in Michigan you do not need a license to be a GC, so I think your right I will start doing anything and if these big companys have a hard time competing cause I can Low Ball with the best of them

So I agree all you guys out there out of work or your slow, start stepping on toes of the Sparkys and the Plumbers and the HVAC guys and watch how fast they start crying about Hacks

Here's one for you, your a doitall kinda of guy
tell me how would you fix this.

fr8train · 08-09-2009, 08:26 AM

Frank,

I don't think tek meant to step on any toes with his post. I think what he was trying to say was that in this new era, it seems prudent to try to stack the decks in your favor as much as possible.

Example:

Customer wants a bathroom remodeled. They can hire a single contractor that can do the demo, plumbing, electrical, rock, paint, tile, and any other miscellaneous bits and the job is done.

or...

They can hire a contractor to do the demo
then a plumber
then an electrician
than a rocker
painter
tiler

and then the job is done, who know how long this would take, would have to get people in the various trades who have available time slots to do the work and hope none of them fall behind schedule or risk throwing everyone off and losing the person to do that work and falling even further behind schedule.

I would pick option 1. As would IMHO most home owners. It is much easier to coordinate a schedule with one guy/crew than to hire individually for each aspect of the job. I also think it depends on the scope of the job. If building an entire new house, then it would make sense to have a crew frame the exterior, and then they can frame the interior while another crew does the roof, and another crew is running wire, while another is running pipe, etc etc.

Now in your case, you have found a niche where you are specialized, and it works for you, and props for it.
But have you ever contracted a job to re-plaster to start on a certain day, but uh-oh they dug into the wall and nicked a wire or pipe, now they have to get an electrician or plumber in to fix that. In the mean time you can't do your work, and you have other jobs scheduled after this one. Now what do you do?

**Ed the Roofer** · 08-09-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A+ Texture

You may have a point, I've seen lots of jobs done by proffessionals that I could have done better. But when you get licensed to be a roofer, your not licensed to be a painter and so on. They really should stick to what they're licensed for.

I have not heard that Painters required licensing before.

Personally, I don't think any of the painters I contacted would have done such a good job.

I requested detailed proposals from 3 painters originally on my old home that I linked to in the photos of my previous post and all 3 were just scribbled notes, not stating what prep work and primer and brands of paint they would use.

So, I eventually would up getting 5 more estimates. I just gave up and didn't have any more time to wait. The 4 that did turn in estimates were all garbage and left too much to the unknown, even though I requested detailed specs.

Not one was detailed, so I said to heck with them and did the job with my crew between off days on roofing jobs and have gotten many compliments on it, including from the historical commission.

Ed

Tim0282 · 08-09-2009, 08:13 PM

Way to go Ed. Do you have pictures of the finished product? Would like to see. I live in a 1900 Victorian style house restored. Three stories tall. I spent many and I mean many hours burning all of the paint off, sanding, priming and painting. Amazing how many people told me I was crazy for not just putting vinyl siding on.

**Ed the Roofer** · 08-09-2009, 08:55 PM

Click on this thread link for the before and the after from about 2-3 years after I was done.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/ed-painter-42466/

Now, why couldn't any of the painters I contacted describe how they would achieve the same results?

At least one out of 8 should have been professional enough to write up a decent proposal.

I was shooting for a budget of around $8,000.00 which was around 5 years ago when I did that job and some were around 4K to 6K and they still didn't offer the multi color that I told them I wanted.

Ed

Frankawitz · 08-10-2009, 06:50 AM

Ed I can't tell you why the painters couldn't give you a detailed proposal but I always do with my customers, as for Licensing well here in Michigan Every Contractor has to have a license other then a GC they do not. fr8train as for what your saying I am waiting on the plumbers to run new supply lines so I can put the ceiling back together, so I will be doing a staiway this week, I understand what your saying, But like I also said when you have roofers doing painting ok that's one thing, A few years back I had a estimate to fix a ceiling well when I got there I told the customer what needed to be done and I wrote it up, then they tell me, well the Roofer said that you need to do this ceiling repair like this,

WTF! I said "Well why did you call me if your Roofer told how to fix it? They said well we weren't very happy with his roof job, But yet this A hole is going to tell people how to fix a plaster ceiling yet he couldn't do a desent roofing job, and I have had more then my share of CLOWNS like these. so yeah I'm pissed. But I have seen carpenters who say they can paint, and like I tell them "Yeah I can get my dog to paint as long as I can keep paint on his tail and keep it wagging"

But I aint lookin for a pissin match it just gets me when I see other trades going out of their field and into other trades, when I worked for a Union painting company when I started out, if there was a carpenter doing painting or some other trade Boy Sh*t would hit the fan, now a days it seems like trades will cut each other throats, not Professional in my book that's all. So stick a fork in me I'm done.

fr8train · 08-10-2009, 02:05 PM

Frank, I get what you are saying. In a perfect world, we would only have to do once aspect of a job. Everything would be done on time, and everyone would make a boat load of money doing it. That would be nice wouldn't it?

But, I guess if everyone made uber money, a pepsi would cost $12.90

Frankawitz · 08-11-2009, 04:25 AM

fr8train,
The thing is there is enough work out there, it's just that these companys who use to build new contruction have moved into repairs and smaller remodels, So now guys like myself have all these Bozo's bidding for the work, but I can say this, being a one man show I will under bid anyone within reason. cause at this point it's everyone for themselves. So I'm going to cut my prices on the jobs where I can. I guess you have to fight fire with fire.
I may contact the people that had the roofing company do the stucco and painting and tell them I can lower my price by $1,500.00 just to start some sh*t for the roofers.

flashheatingand · 08-11-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankawitz

Tek, That sounds about right now a days, you have to be able to do anything, So I'm going to start doing Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC and whatever else I can under bid the Licensed guy

and I will bet a dollar to a donut I hear nothing but your a Unlicensed Hack. But hey I know how to do these trades so why should the Homeowner care it's all about the price, and here in Michigan you do not need a license to be a GC, so I think your right I will start doing anything and if these big companys have a hard time competing cause I can Low Ball with the best of them

So I agree all you guys out there out of work or your slow, start stepping on toes of the Sparkys and the Plumbers and the HVAC guys and watch how fast they start crying about Hacks

Here's one for you, your a doitall kinda of guy
tell me how would you fix this.

With all due respect, things are always changing. You can bitch about carpenters, hvac guys, plumbers..etc delving into your specialty, but you are spitting into the wind. What's that expression about not being able to beat em?

I think it would behoove you to partner up with another one man guy in another field (plumbing, hvac...etc.) and work together on jobs. At least, that is what I am thinking about doing...hiring someone who specializes in painting.

Sir Mixalot · 08-13-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer

I have not heard that Painters required licensing before.

Personally, I don't think any of the painters I contacted would have done such a good job.

I requested detailed proposals from 3 painters originally on my old home that I linked to in the photos of my previous post and all 3 were just scribbled notes, not stating what prep work and primer and brands of paint they would use.

So, I eventually would up getting 5 more estimates. I just gave up and didn't have any more time to wait. The 4 that did turn in estimates were all garbage and left too much to the unknown, even though I requested detailed specs.

Not one was detailed, so I said to heck with them and did the job with my crew between off days on roofing jobs and have gotten many compliments on it, including from the historical commission.

Ed

That's what happens when painters don't neeed a license.

Here you need to be able to prove experience, take a written painting test and business law test.