Hanging methods, screws vs. glue - Page 4 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

TimberTom · 11-06-2009, 09:59 AM

I prefer a combination of screws AND glue. It is more time consuming, and we wait for the glue to cure before we screw anything, but I am more confident that the finished result is more secure and safe.

MeatBallDryWall · 11-06-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

I prefer a combination of screws AND glue. It is more time consuming, and we wait for the glue to cure before we screw anything, but I am more confident that the finished result is more secure and safe.

I agree. The most politically correct way I suppose to ensure a maximum structure/material bond would be using glue + normal screw/nail method. I disagree on the 1 screw per 32-48 span, but then again I am a just a poor drywall guy.

I personally don't use glue since the cheap

's here Will Not pay any extra for it, period. No matter how many nails/screws pop & joints crack due to movement. I could see the benefit of keeping screw pops to a minimum & saving on touch up though. Glue question for the glue masters in the house...

How much extra do you guys charge for using glue+screws over just screwing?

MeatBallDryWall · 11-06-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

the fly

Get off my damn rock you

fly!!

LOL

Muddauber · 11-07-2009, 07:39 AM

Meat,

My cost for glue for a house with 10,000 ft. of board would be in the $140.00 range.

MeatBallDryWall · 11-07-2009, 02:27 PM

Thanks for the info muddauber. I'm going to use it on an upcoming job & see how it goes. What's the best glue to use & how much curing time before you screw the sheets off? When we hang we nail the perimeter & screw the field (3 on ceilings & 2 on walls @ 16OC) How much glue do you apply to each stud/joist? Thanks in advance for the info.

Ancient Rocker · 11-07-2009, 04:44 PM

Meat Ball, disregard the post about "curing", whatever that means. You will probably become frustrated very quickly if you haven't glued before. I have been gluing for 38 years and it takes at least 8 months to master gluing. In my area the two available drywall adhesives are Miracle and Franklin . Be sure you get a glue that is specificly used for drywall. Read the information on the tubes and try to find a good glue gun. You WILL get glue on you and your tools so try to be patient. Apply a bead about 1/2" about 40" of a 4' wide sheet, hang your sheet and immediately start screwing. The longer you let the glue "cure" the less effective it becomes. Fasteners on ceilings 16" o.c. Walls I put 1 screw in every stud 24" o.c. If the glue sits long enough to get a film on it ,then it is already losing it's bonding power. When you master this, you will be the envy of all the other hangers and your tapers will LOVE you. Don't let the naysayers get under your skin , because they will attempt to sabotage your progressive methods. It will be messy originally, but the end results will be more than gratifying. Please be patient and let us know your progress.

d's · 11-07-2009, 10:20 PM

Having liked using the foam so much I bought the applicator gun that goes with it. It is definitely the way to go - squeeze the trigger and you can lay a perfect bead from floor to ceiling almost as fast as you can stand up. Release the trigger and the flow stops immediately with no overflow because of the guns design. Way more control and less mess than conventional caulk guns - and you can leave it for days and it doesn't go off. Because the foam is initially softer than glue you don't have to screw the field at all to get the bead to "compress/set". 1 can cost $16 bucks and I did all the interior walls of a 10000BF house with 3 cans. So having now used both Miracle DSA glue, and foam, I can say foam has many advantages...

less mess- no overflow from gun, cleaner more controlled application
easier to apply - squeeze trigger and hold nozzle at any angle and the bead still comes out perfect
cheaper/faster- 1 can @$16 vs 10 tubes@$50, less labor to apply, less screws in field to put in and finish, less reloading gun
less product to stock/manage/dispose of

Regarding the other aspects of using adhesives...
I can see how those that are strictly hangers wouldn't see the point because it would be extra work and expense for them, but it makes the finishers job way easier and creates a higher quality product IMO.
I don't bother on ceilings because they still need to be screwed for support and to lay flat, and I wouldn't use it in rated assemblies for code reasons - but for interior walls I'd be wasting time and money if I didn't use them.

try it and see for yourself!

D'S

Muddauber · 11-08-2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Rocker

Meat Ball, disregard the post about "curing", whatever that means. You will probably become frustrated very quickly if you haven't glued before. I have been gluing for 38 years and it takes at least 8 months to master gluing. In my area the two available drywall adhesives are Miracle and Franklin . Be sure you get a glue that is specificly used for drywall. Read the information on the tubes and try to find a good glue gun. You WILL get glue on you and your tools so try to be patient. Apply a bead about 1/2" about 40" of a 4' wide sheet, hang your sheet and immediately start screwing. The longer you let the glue "cure" the less effective it becomes. Fasteners on ceilings 16" o.c. Walls I put 1 screw in every stud 24" o.c. If the glue sits long enough to get a film on it ,then it is already losing it's bonding power. When you master this, you will be the envy of all the other hangers and your tapers will LOVE you. Don't let the naysayers get under your skin , because they will attempt to sabotage your progressive methods. It will be messy originally, but the end results will be more than gratifying. Please be patient and let us know your progress.

Peeeerrrrrfect job! I like your style Ancient.

AARC Drywall · 11-08-2009, 10:01 AM

As far as extra work...its not...its just one extra step, but the work is less or the same but no more....when i tested the difference, the walls were the same size 102" first i took a length, went to cut the sheet, my helper glued the wall, while i cut the sheet, then came and gave me a lift. We did this for both sheets, and then screwing the top and bottom and sides of the sheet, as well as 2 in the field. the time was just over 3 min to do this. Then we hung the same wall on the other side of the closet, the old fashion way.....closer to 4min, So, there it is. we use autofeeds, and with that its much quicker to screw the fields.

As for cure time....are you nuts....or maybe you just don't understand the logic.....never let the glue cure before screwing....it will glaze over and defeat the purpose.

As for fire, the back of the paper is bonded to the gyproc quite well....I ask has anyone tried to rip the brown side paper clear off the drywall on a standard DRY sheet? Its near imposable. So with that being said, when we use the proper glue we are obviously bonding to that....and when there is a fire, the paper will burn if it is in the wall cavity, but will burn slower where the glue is, due to the glue being hard and cured. Fire as we all know is lazy, it will take the path of least resistance... and that is upwards....
We do a lot of insurance work, and the major cause of fires is human screw ups, therefore the fire is on the outside of the wall, When the drywall is removed, and the fire has made it through the wall into the cavity, it is only usually one or maybe two cavities, so keeping this in mind, what about the rest of the wall, it is still intact.

lol this is of course if you hung the drywall the right way to begin with...

Ancient Rocker · 11-08-2009, 12:25 PM

Hey D, great information but I need more. What is the brand name and where are you getting it? It sure sounds promising and I value your opinion. How long have you been using it and is there any problem with availability? If every thing you say is true, this is revolutionary for a hanger. I asked my supplier,an ex hanger, and he said it was too costly,so maybe it is a different product. I am very excited to hear your response. Thank you.

Capt-Sheetrock · 11-08-2009, 08:04 PM

the way you guys talk about glue,,,, its making my D*** puffy!!!!

AARC Drywall · 11-08-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt-Sheetrock

the way you guys talk about glue,,,, its making my D*** puffy!!!!

Sorry but at your age you should run, not walk, but run to the bedroom and make sure to use it.

I have ordered the foam, and gun, should be in this week, kind of curious myself. I hear the guns can break easy, so care will have to be taken. The foam is really condensed, and is approx 8 tubes of glue in one can....yet to be seen, but hey if thats the case GREAT

kcremodeling · 11-09-2009, 08:49 PM

I have seen where a drywall has not been screwed properly. The drywall got wet and pulled away from the studs 1 1/2". Had to be cut out and patched. Never been a big fan of glue.

d's · 11-10-2009, 02:01 AM

my bad

**Teetorbilt** · 11-10-2009, 02:11 AM

I know that y'all just raised the price of remods and that I have to drill holes in the walls prior to an estimate. Not customer friendly on my end.

d's · 11-10-2009, 02:12 AM

I should put my previous posts in perspective and admit that this is the first job I have used foam on so it is still initial impressions. Hopefully I'm not on this forum in 6 months cursing the stuff because of callbacks. That being said... I happened upon the foam alternative after googling mastic glue MSDS info (comparing Miracle DSA 20 to DSA 40, DSA 20 is quite nasty due to volatile solvents) and ended up on the DOW chemical site for various polyurethane foam adhesives (http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiteratu...0380047b57.pdf,http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiteratu...038007a47a.pdf,http://www.awci.org/cd/pdfs/9502_a.pdf). Intrigued I read through their lit and inquired about the product at my drywall supply house (Shoemaker Drywall). They did carry it so I ordered a can and compared it to using mastic adhesive and saw some promise in it. Feeling kind of "puffy", I went to the local Home Hardware on a Saturday to see if they had a foam gun I could buy and to my surprise they already stocked the product and guns as a general use window/door sealant...

Story goes DOW had multiple packaging of relatively the same product for Subfloor, Drywall, and Sealing under the tag Great Stuff, EnerFoam and EnerBond. I get the impression there is now only EnerFoam Pro/ GreatStuff Pro that do everything.

Seems like there are cheap guns available for $35 and "pro" models for over $100. I talked to an foam insulation contractor about the guns and he recommended the more expensive model and gave me some maintenance tips on how to avoid the foam unexpectantly setting in the gun, which is the biggest downside to using foam. Properly maintained/prepped they're supposed to stay in fine working order and apparently there are even trade in programs for clogged guns from the larger distributors. Guns are key for hassle/mess free application - they just cost a bit more up front and need a bit of TLC.

In 5 minutes I had the clerk at Home Hardware down to $16 a can for a case of 12 cans - sure you could get it even cheaper. Can't do the math off hand but for $50/house - no screwing the field, no finishing the field, no touch ups to the field, and no call backs for the field... I think we have a winner.

I purposely boarded a bunch of walls one side only and waited so I could inspect how it set up on the studs. Upon inspection - the foam squeezes out across the stud as soon as you screw the perimeter - no resistance as compared to mastic. If tight it then expands max 1/8"(no perceptible bow), if loose it fills the void between the stud and board eliminating rattles or wavyness.

I just hope this experiment doesn't bite me in the bum!

Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.

D'S

AARC Drywall · 11-11-2009, 08:52 AM

thats sounds good to me, i ordered a gun last week, and am going to try it...although i have been told not to get the stuff on you or your cloths, due to the fact it is very sticky and you will not get the stuff off... but it sounds good to me...

Willie T · 11-14-2009, 08:16 PM

I'm still trying to tell myself you guys are simply joking. Pull out your drywall books, (Application and Finishing of Gypsum Panel Products GA 216-2007), and I think it is sections 6 & 7 that cover board adhesives. It's not all that common here in Florida, but some of you honestly say you've never heard of it?

AARC Drywall · 11-15-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T

I'm still trying to tell myself you guys are simply joking. Pull out your drywall books, (Application and Finishing of Gypsum Panel Products GA 216-2007), and I think it is sections 6 & 7 that cover board adhesives. It's not all that common here in Florida, but some of you honestly say you've never heard of it?

it might be that they never heard of a book,
the writing is in this post, Glue is way better, faster for the install, and faster for the finishing, and is a far better product. So I guess we all that glue are better in some areas than others. As for books, most of us never learned from books, rather on the job training.....but we are always finding a way to take it to the next level...glue, now butt splices...although they are all not new, history has a habit of repeating its self....and now we are installing and finishing houses faster and turning out a better product...in my mind that is...

Capt-Sheetrock · 11-15-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AARC Drywall

it might be that they never heard of a book,
the writing is in this post, Glue is way better, faster for the install, and faster for the finishing, and is a far better product. So I guess we all that glue are better in some areas than others. As for books, most of us never learned from books, rather on the job training.....but we are always finding a way to take it to the next level...glue, now butt splices...although they are all not new, history has a habit of repeating its self....and now we are installing and finishing houses faster and turning out a better product...in my mind that is...

Glue is way better???? in your opinion

Glue is faster??? yeah, in your mind your a legend
Don't know bout you, but i am in the drywall buss to make a living If you think that glue is faster, you have obviously never seen professional drywall hangers at work

Glue has no differance on finisher speed,,,( maybe 30 mins over 300 boards)

Glue is the next level????? Level of what, ,,,,perhaps, "how can I slow myself down, cost myself money, on something that absolutely nobody but other hangers give a rip about!!!!

Wheen I listen to you guys talk about Glue, I find myself saying "why don't you and your TUBE get a room!!!!!!"