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Finished drywall!!

15K views 120 replies 29 participants last post by  Zack78 
#1 ·
I had a sub-contractor do some drywall work for me. When I inspected the finished work, I found all kinds of areas that were not sanded properly and you can see the sanding marks (He used 180 grit to finish it). When I told him about it, he told me that if you stand back five (5) feet from the wall and see no "blemishes", the work is good to go and there should be no "bitc*ing" about the work.

Sorry, I inspect all work at a distance of 6 inches with a light. If not "perfect", the job is not done. I told him that this job is a "level 5", not a level 3. He said he never heard of that. I told him I never heard of the five foot rule. I guess the five foot rule has been around since the late 1960's!!

Is this guy for real??? Has anyone ever heard of the five foot rule or am I just a picky perfectionist???? :blink:
 
#2 ·
What's the contract say?


What's your state consider acceptable?

Without actually seeing it, no one can say for sure, personally I say prime the walls and see what it looks like, secondly using a 500 watt halogen 6" from the wall your guaranteed to see defects on more then just the taping and sanding.

Our Tarion warranty program says 8' from the wall after paint
 
#3 ·
I don't accept anything less than a "level 5". That being said, I think level 5 shoul be standard finish.

I don't go around leaving big gaps in trim Saying you didn't pay for a level 5 trim job, same should apply for all trades.

Quality work should be what it is bid for.
 
#4 ·
I wouldn't be real close but close enough to see and areas that could be seen close up yea I'd be picky

I hired a guy after hearing he was good

No crap his name was close enough drywall oh boy the references he got were great

All I could think about was these people would call me god if I ever did their work

I finished it up so I guess he got it close enough for me to finish it lol
 
#11 ·
6" with a light is a little extreme, but if the only issue is sanding marks, you can fix an entire room in fifteen minutes with a fine sanding sponge (or he could) He needs to do this in order to get paid for a complete job in my opinion. If you can see it, it will show through the paint.
 
#15 ·
Level 5 takes very little additional product and often times saves time because it eliminates 90% of touch ups.

At Ohio Home Doctor in Dayton Ohio we level 5 ALL of our projects to ensure the highest quality finishes for our valued clients.
 
#19 ·
summithomeinc said:
What I really want to know is do your customers understand the difference between what you offer and what most others offer?
I like to think so since I charge a little more than most the guys around me. I try not to let my clients ignorance get in the way of offering top quality installations.

They are hiring me because they cannot or do not want to gc their own projects and thus I provide them with a service which includes all sorts of upgraded quality goodies, level 5 drywall finishes just being one of them.

Lastly, since my detailed proposals stated clearly that the finish is to be level 5 they know they are getting it whether they know what it is or not.
 
#20 ·
summithomeinc said:
If you put Joe HO face to face with level 5 finishing and something less, they couldn't tell the difference?
I dont know about that Jeremy. I really think most people now a days are able to see the difference in the quality and smoothness of a wall finish. It is one of the finishes that really does matter in my opinion.
 
#22 ·
summithomeinc said:
It also takes more paint, and labor, to paint level 5.
Not to split hairs but it would require NO additional paint at all. Perhaps an immeasurable amount of more primer, but no extra paint. :whistling


While we are on the subject I will share my mindset with you. I have always taken the quality of my wall/paint finishes seriously and contribute a small portion of my minor success to that. A quality finish job can make a decent build great and a great one fantastic.

One thing that I always concentrate on is a flashless consistent primer coat. Too me the primer coat is as important or even possibly more important than the final top coat.

I finish the sanding of the skim coat, then broom them off with a fine dust broom, then wipe them down with a barely damp towel. Then a coat of pva primer. There is nothing better than pva primer for raw drywall in my opinion. Now my point to all this rambling which Im enjoying typing from the elevated Smokey Mountain top deck over looking Gatlinburg is that the level 5 finish creates a consistent surface which the primer is applied too.

One of the issues I had before realizing level 5 was the way to go is a primer flash between where the raw paper and mudded areas. A flashed primer finish almost always translates into a flashed first and evn in cases second coat of paint. That drove me nuts when it came day 0 and I could still see a small discrepancy between the two substrates in the sheen of the top coat.

The other advantage is it eliminates the roughing of the drywall paper which again can be seen throughout several top coats of paint. Level 5 provides a consistent medium to start with.

Your finished product will only be as good as the top coat and skim coating the entire wall is just one small way we have created to separate ourselves from the competition in Dayton Ohio.

BTW you can apply the mud with heavy nap rollers or even a commercial grade paint sprayer and then trowl down by hand to reduce labor cost and increase productivity.


Sorry for the mikes plumbing length post.. :laughing:
 
#23 ·
While we are on the subject I will share my mindset with you. I have always taken the quality of my wall/paint finishes seriously and contribute a small portion of my minor success to that. A quality finish job can make a decent build great and a great one fantastic.

One thing that I always concentrate on is a flashless consistent primer coat. Too me the primer coat is as important or even possibly more important than the final top coat.

I finish the sanding of the skim coat, then broom them off with a fine dust broom, then wipe them down with a barely damp towel. Then a coat of pva primer. There is nothing better than pva primer for raw drywall in my opinion. Now my point to all this rambling which Im enjoying typing from the elevated Smokey Mountain top deck over looking Gatlinburg is that the level 5 finish creates a consistent surface which the primer is applied too.

One of the issues I had before realizing level 5 was the way to go is a primer flash between where the raw paper and mudded areas. A flashed primer finish almost always translates into a flashed first and evn in cases second coat of paint. That drove me nuts when it came day 0 and I could still see a small discrepancy between the two substrates in the sheen of the top coat.

The other advantage is it eliminates the roughing of the drywall paper which again can be seen throughout several top coats of paint. Level 5 provides a consistent medium to start with.

Your finished product will only be as good as the top coat and skim coating the entire wall is just one small way we have created to separate ourselves from the competition in Dayton Ohio.

BTW you can apply the mud with heavy nap rollers or even a commercial grade paint sprayer and then trowl down by hand to reduce labor cost and increase productivity.


Sorry for the mikes plumbing length post.. :laughing:
I agree with you, mostly.

I painted many customs as an employee before this latest venture of mine. I'm impressed that you actually do things very similar to the way I do. Why are you on CT anyway? I hope you are enjoying your vacation.
 
#25 ·
donerightwyo said:
So what your saying is Ohio Home Doctor in Dayton, Ohio cares so much about their end product that they require level 5 drywall finish on all their remodels, additions, kitchens, bathrooms, basement finishes and custom homes.:thumbsup:
Thats exactly right! Thanks for noticing! :laughing:
 
#31 ·
The contractor should just use a finer sponge....done...but also, if the Contractor wants level 5 then he should pay for it....
Did you discuss the wall finish before starting with the finishing? If not dont expect him to do something you did not discuss. If you can do it better and at the same pace why did you not do it yourself, and save yourself some money...if your such a perfectionist?
Drywall is not forgiving, so lets keep that in mind, sand fill, fix...
 
#33 ·
A light 6" from wall with a light:eek:. Its funny reading thru all this. "Everything gets level 5":no:laughing: If you do a small reno/addition and the house or business has a orangepeel or hand trowel tex thruout existing why on Earth would you Level 5? Matching existing textures can be too dificult for some I guess. And when doing a Level 5 the MOST important step to achieve would be the framing. If thats done right it shouldnt be too hard for a drywall journeyman
 
#35 ·
I still say 6" with a light is extreme, but for the price you paid, and fom the sound of the agreement, you should get exactly what you asked for. If he isn't willing to spend 15 minutes with a fine sanding sponge to get his other 40%, he must have made enough from the first 60% to satisfy his needs.

My suggestion? Keep your 40%, finish sanding yourself, find a more reasonable sub, who meets your criteria that you can work with, and stick with him.
 
#36 ·
Sounds like a lot of excuses for poor workmanship. I agree 6" with a bright light might be a little extreme and the 5' rule sounds like the old hack saying you can't see it from my house. Is there not enough pride in your work anymore that close enough for gov. work will do. If my name is on it I will do everything I can to make it right or as close to perfect as I can. But hey that's just me.
 
#38 ·
The problem I have found with some customers is when you say level 5 and explain how the levels work they think they are getting a 100% perfect finish when standing 5" from it. What I do now is tell them I do upto a level 4 but I do the work at level 5 this has worked much better for me when being done this way. My drywall finish after paint looked like a dam mirror but some will still find stuff to pick at. Not so long ago I done a basement where the woman complained about a little bug that flew onto the paint. The bug was about 10x smaller than a fly yet she wanted me to redo the whole wall. I rubbed the fly off after drying and she could even find the area it landed. Some people are just over anal.
 
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