Adhesive Additives For Hot Mud

Nigel S. Shorts

I've had problems with painters and other handyman types who skim coat walls ahead of me, where the skim coat gets pulled free by the wallpaper. When I do patching with hot mud, I use Westpac 20 minute with their Acrylic add mix for added adhesion. This is in lieu of water. It says on the bottle that you can do this, so I assume they're correct.

I don't think most painters or drywall guys realize how much wallpaper taxes the soundness of a surface, by pulling hard in the drying process. The first sign of trouble is a ridge, and hollow sound at the seams. then you get the whole thing lifting and one pissed off client.

The question is, besides the product I'm using (and am I on the right track doing that?), what else can be done to increase the bond with mud to wall, considering plaster- true plaster- is rarely used anymore? Green label USG mud simply dries too slow for me to be able to do work in a timely manner, unless I'm skimming a whole room myself.

Does USG have their own product that you can add to their hot mud to increase the bond? Since hot mud has virtually no glue in it I don't like patching with it without an additive. Lowes no longer carries Westpac here, and I hesitate to add a Westpac additive to a USG hot mud mix. The whole thing is a confusing mess to me.

Brockster

Next time try using the brown bag Durabond using water. It does have more adhesive properties than easy sand. Be sure to pull off and sand any loose paper before applying the mud.

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dryrocker27

Nigel- i have never used an additive in my hot mud when repairing walls from wall paper removal.

What do you mean by skim coating the wall?

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Robert

Nigel S. Shorts

By skim coating ... c'mon man, you have to know what that is, seeing as you're in the Drywall trade.. anyway, assuming you're not pulling my leg, I mean skimming a wall, or room smooth with mud. My clients often don't want to keep the orange peel texture when I install new paper, so someone has to skim it smooth. I've had too many bad experiences with guys who did a poor job by either not sanding it properly, or worse, used topping or hot mud with no adhesive. I'm telling you, wallpaper presents problems that paint coatings do not, and poor bonding between mud and wall WILL eventually be exposed.

I don't necessarily mean repairing walls from wallpaper removal either, just any old repairs. For this same reason I have curtailed my use of spackle, due to there being a weak bond compared to compounds heavy with glues, like green label USG. Maybe I'm talking out of my arse here, but I have to find a solution for all the problems I've had with failed mud jobs. I mean, the primer stuck to the wall fine, and the paper stuck to the primer, but it's been the layers underneath that have proven weak.

Imagine skimming over a semi gloss surface- not a good idea, right? What do you put on the surface, and/or in the mud to make that doable? And, just because the surface is flat paint doesn't necessarily mean it's ok to put hot mud, with no adhesive added, on it and expect the wall to be sound for wallpaper. I've read on here about guys putting soap in their mud. Besides making it easier to spread, or whatever the benefit is, is it possible that there may be some other deleterious effect that goes unnoticed from that?

Yesterday I began the process of installing a hand painted scenic mural in a powder room. I had a few areas to patch, and wanting to use something that dried fast I elected to use 20 minute. I added the aforementioned westpac add mix to the powder, and not only did it bond, but it hardened to the point that it was difficult to sand. Furthermore, the $h*t was a bear to clean out of my stainless pan if I didn't get it all while it was wet. That's the kind of bond that is needed for paper, and I was hoping to find out the products that the experts use for that. I'm no expert.

Frankawitz

Nigel,
I have found that most guys who do repairs will skim coat over painted walls and a lot of times the paint has lost it's adhesion to the wall surface, so that when you paint or wallpaper the walls after them you end up with a mess. I am doing a job now that all the paint in this kitchen came off the ceiling and all the walls, I had to remove all the paint with a scraper, now I have bare plaster ceiling and walls, but with what your running into you might want to check their repairs to make sure they are tight, also you could try using Plaster weld before you skim coat your repairs, as for some that drys fast try using M&H Ready Patch Home Depot and Lowes should carry it. this stuff can be used in doors and out, so it might work for you. hope this helps good luck

Brockster

Trim-Tex has basically the same product you are describing called Mud-Max. This shtuff will stick to your pan! (looks like Elmers glue)

I used it once in my texture mud because I was worried about adhesion and my texture stuck unbelievingly well.

http://www.trim-tex.com/productsindex.htm

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Nigel S. Shorts

FUNKIN A, brothers, now we're getting somewhere

I'll check into the mud max, and I agree it's poorly bonded paint in some cases that is the culprit. Thanks guys.

dryrocker27

Nigel - Nobody in my area skims the whole wall with joint compound. In my area, the walls are all finished smooth, Textures are for the ceilings or commercial work.

All walls are finished to a state ready to paint. If wall paper is to be applied, the wall is primed and then painted with a semi-gloss paint. The idea is that the glue on the wallpaper will ride on the paint instead of the drywall, making the wall paper removal easier in the future.

Sorry if i pulled your leg to hard and you fell out of your chair. lol

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Robert

Tradesman

Actually, wallpaper should never be applied directly to drywall or mud. Even
if you can get the paper to adhere, the next person to re-paper will have bad things to say about you when they have to re-skim.

I have found Zinsser "Shieldz" to be a good, quick drying wallpaper primer, available most everywhere. Another Zinsser product that comes in handy is "Gardz". This is for those situations where you remove wallpaper from drywall that wasn't primed before hanging the paper, and inevitably damage the drywall paper. The Gardz seals the drywall and bonds all the little nubbies of paper so they don't stick up when skimmed over.

ProWallGuy

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Wallpaper Hanger St. Louis
Digital Murals Installation

Nigel S. Shorts

I don't think anyone here was promoting that. As a matter of fact, I vote it becomes a capital offense. It's just bad form all around.
You can have that Shieldz. Gardz is way better, but the original that spawned Gardz is Draw Tite. Kind of hard to find, but I live 20 minutes from the factory in Gardena, just outside LA. It's the shizzle.