It's a little different than most so I'm hoping someone can give me some insight. This is what i'm working with. I have the structural pad poured but not the insulating pad and the bricks are all full size because it's just for layout at the moment.
The oven is going to be quite small I realise that and am OK with it. I'm sure i would be happier with a larger oven but I'll be glad to have anything really. That said, I want to make it as large as possible. So, would a 2.25" thick (firebrick laid as a shiner, or a header) be enough. That while it wouldn't be a huge gain it would be better than nothing. the other thing I could do would be 3"= 1/3 of a stretcher or 1.5 shiners, not fun all that cutting but that extra 1/3 of strength seems significant to me. The narrower i make the walls the taller I'll have to make the rise of the vault to lessen the thrust.
next...On advice from you guys I've made the floor of the oven quite high, it's @ 44" at the structural pad and if i go 3.5" of insulating pad and another 2.5" of firebrick and fireclay, that brings it to 52" . That seemed alright on paper but 44" is seeming pretty high right now (granted I'm 4-5 " below finished grade right now because flagstone isn't in yet so maybe that's it but even when i stand on the pad it seems high). So IF i feel like the floor of the oven will be too high and i want to lower it a couple inches do you think that 2" of perlcrete would be sufficient or what about going with splits for the floor?
And lastly. As you can see to try and save room i've got the front as a barrel vault and the back as a dome....so what I'm wondering is am I out to lunch? Also, should i make the rear a dome or build it up straight and bring the arch of the vault into it? it will mean some compound angle cutting, mostly by guess and by gosh but I'm into it now.
so i had a pile of off cuts all of the same size so i used them to start my bond and am left with 5" rather than 4.5 to make the transition. Convenient...hopefully it works. Just in for some dinner, i'll have pics later, not sure if I'll get the key in tonight....Fvckin cuts
No the guys not an idiot, he just heated his oven way too long and has too much mass with zero insulation. he did a straight up Alan Scott oven in a non commercial applicationhttp://www.contractortalk.com/f90/could-take-while-yet-another-wood-fired-oven-thread-121303/index2/
I'll show a pic of Bytors oven first to show what i mean by the distance, then I'll upload some pics of mine so you can see further,,,actually...in looking further he only has maybe 1/2" to transition between the vault and the arch as you can see in post #36 http://www.contractortalk.com/f90/could-take-while-yet-another-wood-fired-oven-thread-121303/index2/
From what i remember from the course i took there was a more gradual transition...but again that was 15 years ago and i can't find my notes. Maybe I'm not done with my barrel
I left this area for a transition. The bottom of my barrel will be 6" or so higher than the bottom of my opening, that would mean that for the 2 arches to meet I'd need taht height for a voussoirs min just for them to meet, but that seems like a clunky non-flowing area. maybe i'm wrong and i don't want good heat flow in the front of the oven though, maybe it should be turbulent, but my mind say that everything should be fairly smooth, so i want a transition between the 2 arches. I'll fart around with it after i get the opening built and maybe I won't do it anyhow
some pics...i'd like to preface by saying that i know it looks a litte bushleague. The work i do at home is not the same as i do for customers...Customers don't always understand that just because something that is hidden doesn't look pretty that it can still function fine and look nice when finished....I've never been in the camp that says that hidden work needs to look good, so long as it's solid and not a detriment
So in that 2nd pi you can see where I plan on cutting the wall for the skewback and how i've kept the barrel back a little over a header, this is where I'll transition down to the opening...hope it works
I think you'll be just fine. If it was me, I would make the transition with half brick...it'll make a smoother curve. Any reason you didn't cut the skewback before it was mortared in?
Great to see another oven going up! I can hardly wait to build another..there are plans being made for a mobile unit fir me, and another fixed oven at a friends house.
The only reason i didn't cut the skew back is cause i forgot...I probably had a batch of clay mixed up and wanted to use it up or something.
I'm probably going to be building a mobile unit for my cousin who is a caterer and does a lot of outdoor parties. He's made himself a smoker and grill and rotisserie (he can weld) but he feels a little out of his element with a wood oven. So i'll be watching your progress closely...i might even take notes...real ones...but probably not. Also my neighbours boyfriend owns a bed & breakfast in town that does fine dining as well. He may want one as well....then there's my sister, so this may actually become a part of my business model. I hope so, my favorite masonry is functional masonry, which is why I enjoy fireplaces so much and structural mass masonry
Also wanted to add that the only place neat brickwork matters is the inside face of the dome, 1" of the intrados of the oven opening, and the vent arch if you have one. Everything else is covered, so as long as it's structurally sound who cares what it looks like. I see a lot of ovens on FB are built with perfect cuts on sections which end up buried once the vent arch and finishes are installed....what a time suck. Take a look at my oven arch on my recent build, it's hideous! I did the " it looks like garbage" disclaimer too, because it looks a little amateurish...but it's sound and strong. Once the vent arch was built, you never see it again. Unless you visit my thread or website.:laughing:
It may not be necessary, but I'm going to do it anyway I'll probably cut all the brick until i get to the skewbacks, then i'll pour those weird areas. I have a bunch of castable refractory that's been hanging around a while, may as well use it
I'm also thinking that since the rear is a segment of a dome that the front rolling a but will add to the dome type heat reflection that FB talks about so much. Whatever, it's just more work, and more cutting...YAY
Either way, I'm sure you'll make it work. Don't hold your breath waiting for that mobile unit...I'll probably build my buddies oven before that happens. I still need to build my cabinet and set that stone slab, then lay the travertine patio.....
"Pretty funny hows alread black and you haven't even put the face on. "
I built in November. I built a fire in it as soon as I pulled the form (5 minutes after I finished it), and kept a fire going in it every time I worked on it. I wasn't curing it (I used heat set refractory though), I was warming my hands.
When you are a sissy like me, sure. "Cold" means I have to wear long pants. "Real cold" means I have to wear shoes. "Freezing-ass cold" means I have to wear a shirt.
After being in SC for 5 years, I'm beginning to understand that kind of cold. It's a little embarrassing, being from New England and temps in the 40s are starting to feel like winter.
Getting there, not really but every step forward is good. Making the dome is tougher than I thought, getting it to blend into the barrel is tough, too many square pieces in a round shape, plus that barrel is the most perfect thing I've ever done, rushing to finish by dark...Oh well.
I've got another 2 courses on now, this was from last week but it rained most of last week and the weekend was ominous. I'll take a pic next time
I'm bevelling the dome brick, it's just tough because the dome is round made from squares and the vault is round made with squares, I'm making the bevels by placing the bricks as close to the vault as i can and tipping them until they follow the cuve closely, then marking them to follow the plane of the vault but since I can't get them in the exact spot I have to compensate a bit and sometimes too much, sometimes not enough. Alsothe dome increases in height quickly and gets tighter very quickly as well, I'm losing 1 3/4 bricks per course on average,
it's just a lot of cutting, which i hate...did i mention that yet
No, I've been using a grinder, i remember you sayig that about that herringbone box you just did...great idea, but it's a compound angle and I can't really mark it until it's cut, then i see if it works and adjust as necessary. very non technical bushleague sh!t
All you need are 1/2s, 1/3s, and a few 1/4s (and without the domed section, just halves). Just bang them out with your brick set and put the rough edge on the outside.
So getting back at it. I guess I forgot to update before winter. The dome is closed in, and last weekend i built the lower arch of the facing material (the arch for the wood storage). I did that because I need to corbel the brick out to have more room for a landing. In retrospect I could have cantilevered the structural slab but then I would have had to corbel the bricks under it anyway and that would have been a pain. i guess this is what happens when you design in 2012, pour a pad in 2013, and don't start building until 2014 by which time the plans have long since disappeared. Oh well.
All this to say that I've corbeled the brick and am now in position to build the landing and throat , chimney etc...I'll also be able to build up the sides pour some perlcrete and have an insulated oven ready to cook. My plan for that is by the May long weekend.
So my next question is about the smoke chamber or whatever it's called above the throat, and how big a flue do I need. Flue area the same 10% ratio to opening as a fireplace? And the smoke chamber, can it be a straight shot up or should it angle in the same as a fireplace? I'll only have room to angle it in on the sides and only by 2" either side at most. If i do that I'll end up with a throat that is 13" wide by 4.5" deep Yay, Nay, indifferent? And if I do angle it in how high should I take it before starting the flue?
Who am I to give advice, but Matt had said the throat needs to be as wide as the opening, then what would look like a high velocity angle until you get to your 10 1/2" inside dimension for the 8x12. An 8x8 would be too small I think.
I was looking at his site and he had said that the throat should be 60-75% of the opening width and the depth of the throat should be about 50% of that.
i think an 8x8 would be too big, way too big. Forno bravo says that anything smaller than a 32" should be 6" (round? or square? they don't say) That said i can't get anything smaller than 8x8 (more like 7x7 inside dimension) so I may build the flue out of some crappy old firebrick i have (even crappier than the chipped firebrick I used for most of my build)
I would think the throat would need to be the same width as the opening otherwise you will have a flat spot on each side no?
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