Why Do GC's Waste Everyones Time?

Brickie

I got a call this morning from a GC on a job that I bid on Chicago's North Shore. He stated he really liked my presentation, references and my quote, however, "they have decided to go in an other direction." He stated that even though I was the low bidder, they decided to go with a company that they used in the past on other jobs even though their quote was 20% higher than mine! I asked the guy if they already had a contractor in mind why did they waste my & the other contractors time coming out to quote a job that they knew none of us would get???His reply was that "they appreciated our time & professionalism but have decided to go in an other direction" Can you believe this type of crap???

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“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

Double-A

Professional Bubbaism? What will they think of next?

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

joasis

At least they did call you back...says something about them...I would personally want to know why I was 20% lower, or if the other contractor was 20% higher then market. In any private enterprise, there are no rules of engagement and the buddy system prevails.

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Mike Finley

Sh!t, you hire the 1st person you talk to everytime? Do you buy everything from the 1st person or place you go into? You only go out and look at jobs where you are the only person looking at it?

Must be nice.

I'd actually like to know why subs can waste so much of my time?

Brickie

Yes, he did return my follow up call on a quote that I gave him a week ago.

__________________
“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

Grumpy

"Thank you Mr. GC i understand that ya' can't win them all. I hope you will keep us in mind for any of your future projects."

Next project comes up: "Mr. GC, I really do want to work for you and would hate to havea repat of last time. Can you tell me what I have to do to earn your business on this project?"



Edit: BTW which GC was this? I work alot on the North Shore.

Brickie

Mike, what are you talking about??? This goof came to our job site that is literally right down the road from his job. He told me he had other quotes and asked if I was interested in quoting. In fact, when I got to his site later that afternoon, there was an other masonry contractor there checking things out. Btw, they weren't the guys that got the job).

__________________
“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

Mike Finley

I don't know what to tell you. You think it is crap, I think it is just business. You sound incredulous at what he did, I can think of a dozen reasons why what happened. I guess the difference is going into it I would be aware of those dozen reasons why I am there and ask qualifying questions to ferret out what was going on. After I had a good idea of what was going on I would weigh in my mind whether it would be worth actually continuing or not. Sounds like business as usual to me.

Now why do subs show up 3 hours late? Why do subs try to leave 3 hours early instead of finishing the job they were late for so my schedule stays intact. Why do subs not clean up for themselves? Why do subs break things? Why do subs let their insurance lapse or lie about it and then get upset when they don't get paid for breaking the sub-contractor agreement?

Grumpy

...because you don't have good subs?

Mike Finley

LOL, that would be about an easy answer as you could have!

I meant it actually as a rhetorical question in answer to Brickies question of "Why do GC's waste everyones time?". It basically goes both ways. Fortunately I can pick the subs that work for me and avoid that crap, ... hmmm I was going to say unfortunately you can't pick what GCs you work for as a sub, but that isn't necessarily true now is it?

Peladu

I have said it before and I will say it again, I tend to shy away from the lowestr bidder. The lowest bidder by 20% would really get my attentiuon and I would be concerned about that sub coming back with unforeseen extras to be tacked on to the ass end of the deal.

He must have a guy he trusted and was doing a price check on the guy, I do that with my drywall guy occasionally, this keeps him and me both honest.

When I call for a sub to give me a quote, I never say, “Could you give me a quote for a job I am going to award you.” Two subs will lose and 1 sub will win.

That GC, unlike me, called you back. I only talk to the losing bidder should they call me back. Which I never understood why that all didn’t call back since that seems like a perfect time to check on what the market at the time is doing.

You didn’t seem to have to travel too far to actually bid the job. So don’t cry too much.

This GC did nothing out of the ordinary….get used to it.

kid creole

hey BRICKIE if you offer free estimates then you should be happy that customers are calling you for them.and the g.c. did call back thats a real + dont burn bridges his usual guy might die tomorrow????

FINLEY has anybody included any of these SUB problems in a contract
agreement?

tkle

If you trust him why do you need to check on him and waste another sub's time in the process.In this game there is only 1 winner and he's chosen before the game even starts.

Grumpy

Honestly I disagree. First off it's a fair market and if the bidder is offering a free bid, hw knows the risks. Second if the drywall sub were way out of line with current "going rates" then perhaps Peladue's trust is being taken advantage of.

This is just the nature of the beast. Sometimes people are just seeking free information to make educated decisions. Sometimes the cards are NOT stacked in our favor... but one thing I know for sure, if we clam up and provide no bid then essentially we are saying "no" for the customer. At least by providing them a bid you are giving them the opportunity to say yes, and the more bids you provide the more opportunity for sales, or "yesses".

Maybe the odds are not in your favor, but heck they never are! 3 bidders gives you a 33% chance of winning, that's a 66% chance of losing.


Bottom line, this is the crap we are going to have to deal with until we professionals wake up and collectively start charging for bids. However the agressive sales people and the low ballers will then use the "Free bid" to their advantage. Unforntunately in a free and open market system, without collusion, there is no way to stop people from wasting your time.

Mike Finley

By that do you mean has a sub ever taken our sub-contractor agreement and added to it that he can be 3 hours late and leave 3 hours early, take as long as he likes to finish a job even if we present him with a scope of work and a timeline, that he can leave a big mess for us to clean up, break stuff in the course of doing his job and has the right to lie about his insurance and still get paid?

Not yet.

Since I use basically the same 2 plumber and same 2 electricians all the time we haven't looked at a sub-contractor agreement in awhile. They already know I'm going to be ass about all the details going into the jobs by now, so they aren't allowed to be upset anymore.

kid creole

no the opposite i'm talking how to make the subs pay(contractually) for wobbling my schedule or cleaning up behind them and so on.

Brickie

Exactly, why waste everyone's time?


Peladdu- The guy is a time wasting goof. He came to my jobsite (new construction) looking for a quote for a tuck pointing job that he already knew they weren't going to give to anybody else but their regular guy. There are no "unforseen extras" on this basic tuck point & clean job. Material costs are minimal. 20% in this case = $1000

Grumpy- IPI out of Buffalo Grove. I dealt with him in a professional manner & wasn't rude with him. He did say that he would keep me in mind for future projects.

__________________
“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

joasis

Next time he calls, bid like normal, add 20%, and do not call him back.

I use the same subs whenever possible, and I do not ask anyone to come out and give me a bid unless I am serious about using them.

I don't remember what context or where I heard this, but I remember the quote of throwing out the lowest bid, then the highest bid, and giving the others a serious look. It has been awhile since I have been the lowest bid on a project....my line is we don't need the practice.

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Mike Finley

I'm sure you can do it pretty easily with a simple back charge clause. It seems pretty common experience from guys I know that sub for the big builders. Those big builders love to back charge for anything they can think off, it seems so common I hear that some guys pad their bids up for the amount that they expect to be back charged as a matter of doing business.

My method is pretty simple, I vote with my check book. If the sub would do something that I thought we might need to talk about, we would simply do that and talk about it. If we can't reach an agreement, or he just plain would get uppty or say screw it, it would simply be a matter of not hiring him anymore.

My total payouts to subs for the year is relatively small compared to our gross billings so I don't really have to worry about this too much. It would probably be different if I was building houses or dealing with subs where I was paying out $15,000 a pop.

tkle

It may be a fair market but leading a sub on is rude and unethical as is leaving a mess on the job and showing up 3 hours late for a scheduled appointment.