Starting Out In Niche Market.

hansol04

Hey there,

I'm new to this forum, and wanted to get a few opinions on my current situation.

I've just recently started out running my own show as a general contractor. Previously I've been contracting out as a hired hand on another GC site, helping with everything from concrete retaining walls to framing new out-buildings and decks to falling timber. (I then got axed for flirting with the homeowner's daughter.) 3 days later I got a call to do finishing work for a house that is soon to go to the market, and now have contracts to remodel an upstairs office, frame in a storage unit in a garage, and redo the exterior and trim work on a log home. So things are looking good I think.

That being said, I have always had a hankering to get into brickwork and stonework. The interesting thing is that I currently live on a small island on the outskirts of Vancouver, with a population of about 2500 or so. On the island, we have no one who really specializes in doing brickwork or stonework, and as such anyone on the island who wants this sort of work done must contract out to someone from the mainland. This of course means increased cost to the homeowner due to ferry expenses, etc, plus everyone here likes to "support local businesses" and what not.

So with that, what advice or course of action would you give a guy trying to get into this market, and starting out in this direction? I would normally just hire-on as help for a company that does this sort of thing in order to learn the trade, but like I said, there is no one here to apprentice under without having to go to the mainland. Is it possible to read up on specific trade books and magazines, and then know enough to get started on simple projects? Or more importantly, to be able to do decent work that will lead to more contracts in the future?

Of course I'm not completely naive, I don't expect that suddenly after reading Stanley's "Patios and Masonry" I will suddenly be able to build a block foundation and brick house the next day. I'm leaning more towards brick and stone work for garden walls, or building pillars for fence lines, or smaller gigs like that. Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks very much guys, and I apologize for the long-winded post. Cheers -Cameron

Tscarborough

"So with that, what advice or course of action would you give a guy trying to get into this market, and starting out in this direction?"


Don't flirt with the homeowners daughter.

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hansol04

haha point taken. It wasn't quite like that, but makes for a good summary/story.

masonking02

maybe u can hire a brickie part time from inland and watch him , u may not get the hands on that way but you will learn what too look 4 and maybe he can give a few tips on laying , books is only good for reading and learning whats been taught in the field , i think youre going too have to bite the bullet and get a brickie 4 awhile

Tscarborough

Go buy a a couple hundred brick, mix up some lime mortar and have at it. Tear it down and do it again. When your courses are level, your wall is plumb and your joints are consistant, buy some rock.

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masonking02

good idea but he will have to get a understanding of how thats done sounds easier than it is

silvertree

Your post gave me a chuckle. I was a 3rd generation stone mason. I cleaned tools for a few years and did everything but lay brick or stone and finally got my chance when my Grandfather let me build a drystack retaining wall with Vermont fieldstone. That turned out passable and I started builing fireplaces and other things. Thats when I realized the easy precision of my Grandfather and Uncles was really a practiced art. When Grandpa retired, at 82 years old my Uncle the idiot bastard took over and I had to quit. I became a carpenter, so in other words, I became a laborer again and spent more years learning what I needed to know. I salute your desire to build a masonry business in your community, but you will have to pay some dues. My advice, find someone who will let you clean tools, mix mud and keep the jobsite organized. Get good at that and you will become a great mason.

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hansol04

Thanks for all the input so far.

Silvertree, I'm glad I gave you a laugh. I'll be honest, I feel like a bit of a knob having posted what I did, with the risk of coming across as a naive idiot, but I really have no where else to turn. Figured I would get perspective from the guys who have "been there, got the t-shirt".

What gives me hope in all this is just up the road from me is a guy who does extremely high-end finishing work and cabinetry. The neat thing is this guy started from nothing, with no real background in woodworking (his family owns a pit mine in the Yukon), and now is the president of the inland "industry"/trade committee or some deal like that. Anyways, it makes me think that if a guy has the drive, the work ethic, and a few basic skills, then maybe he can make it work if he starts with small projects in his own yard or for family, and then slowly takes on more projects. But maybe that is romanticised horse**** too, I can't really say.

Like I said, for now I would only be doing simple pillars, garden walls, or the like. I feel it would be great to get into this, as the island is starting to grow, and it would make for a great enviroment to earn a decent living. But again, I'm sure you all would have a better take on what is required. Cheers -Cameron

artisanstone

I think you should do as you say, and build some small stuff for yourself, family, or whoever. Don't charge for it though. After you've built some things, you'll have a better idea about the trade. I think you could teach yourself, but it will take a lot longer, and it already takes a long time to learn. I generally give my guys three years to learn what it takes to be a decent functioning mason. The more you can be around a good mason (and they're not all good), the faster you will learn. Get a tech school textbook and learn all you can about layout and coursing now.

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jvcstone

The book learning can give you some basic knowledge of fundamentals--the one over two sort of stuff. Skill can only come from the doing. I tended for a residential mason for about two years gaining experience as to how properly made mud should feel, and the difference between that feel between brick mud and rock. after a bit as I got more proficient at the helper chores, I also got some wall time--first just spreading mud for the masons and then actually setting brick/stone. Shoot, just learning how to use a trowel is a skill in itself.

After that two years, I figured I knew enough to go out on my own, and that's when the real learning began. 35 years later, I'm still learning. and recon that will only stop when the dirt is piled on top of these weary bones.

JVC

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John VanCamp
www.jvcstoneworks.com

master mason

hey Hans, I can really feel your disire to do this but really need to pay some dues.I've been running commercial large scale masonry projects in and around Baltimore for the last 25 years. Have won several Masonry Instute awards and a Building Congress award,so I know a little about masonry.Even if your a born natural it will take some OTJ training before you can say your a bricklayer.If masonry is what you want to do, then go to work for a masonry contractor as an apprentice and learn the trade the right way.Then you will be able to start your own gig the right way.Good luck and don't give up!

hansol04

Hey there,

I'd just like to thank everyone who chimed in with their advice and experience, as it was much appreciated. I will keep a look out for a experienced mason on the island here, but until then will read as much as I can, and as the saying goes, "start small".

Thanks again -Cameron

Sonoran West

A true masonry apprenticeship requires three FULL years of on-the-job training, plus book learnin', plus every Saturday morning in classes. In fact in Detroit where I started out the program requires a 3 Month Pre-Apprenticeship program. If you can't cut it after 40 hours per week of training for 12 weeks, the union won't even allow you to BEGIN an apprenticeship.

It's not something that you can just decide to learn and make yourself good at quickly. And for sure not make yourself good enough to go into contracting quickly. The typical apprentice spends another 10 years as a journeyman before possibly becoming skilled enough to become a crew foreman. It's a demanding trade.

I'd suggest you get really good at estimating and managing masonry jobs and leave the brick laying to already skilled professionals!

Rock Headed

Vancouver Island? I would love to have your market. Beautiful weather, beautiful environment and wealthy clientel. Good luck.