Poured Rasied Curb Vs Block For Garage-opinions

IHI

This is a constant debate I get into with customers, I know my personal preference based on all the jobs I've seen go to crap with the 1 day garage builders and their poured curb and try to play on that to better my position and takes some pictures to show what will happen in the future should they go this route. And I also explain the long story of it of why poured curb is so popular and block is fading out.

I'm wanting to hear other's opinions on this as to which is their personal favorite, why they like it over the other, and without backing yourself in a corner a good honest long term evaluation...just curious for my own reasoning but have stuck to my guns in the past and lost jobs since I dont want crap based off every other one I've seen being associtated with my name.

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Peladu

In my area they only used a poured curb, no blocks at all.

The only help I can give you is this Bump.

IHI

I'm sure when guys get settled back in there'll be some responses. I guess I could start with my own opinions and we could start debating over that

I personally hate going in after guys have done a poured curb for my garages. Typically they are never true-they'll bow in and out and it'll always be blamed on grade not holding stakes/braces. They're typically never perfectly flat around the perimeter, there always seems to be some rolling like an ocean throughout the length of a wall. Heaven help if they ever get a center wall section like for a divider wall between OHD's at the same height and perfectly true. Around here the 1 day garage builders come in before hand, and form the slab/curb and pour at the same time, there is NEVER any steel involved with the curb section if under footing requirement, and even then just the footings themselves get the rebar and nothing else...."we ordered it with fiber" is what these hacks all say.

When the building crew behind the concrete guys come in there are NEVER J bolts installed, just a nice smooth curb and after it sits for a week the assemblers use swedge bolts to connect bottom plates. IMO since this mud is not fully cured nor reinforced in any way this always leads to micro cracking under the surface and after a few years of temp cycling will start to show at the surface, and since the curb/slab is poured at the same time eventually this crack goes down into the slab and goes any which way it like, add in settling over time and heaving after some years you have a nasty slab that's heaved all over the place. I also veiw it as everybody is concerned about the all mighty dollar with low buck winning bids. It takes competant guys to lay blocks from getting it square and level to mixing the proper amount of mortar to stick it all together. This kind of craftsmanship costs money since the average joe grunt can barely get 1 aspect of this process right much less the entire process. Forming curbs with steel forms or plywood takes monkey brains (no offense to anyone) but there is nothing craftsman about it so they can send out joe and billy dirt to form up whatever and just fill with mud, then give 20 excuses why the pour is lacking here or there.

I simply refuse to have any of my garages built with a curb and have lost as many as I've built since i will not use a curb-no if and's or but's about it. Now if I wanted to have a curb built using my guys it's gonna cost since it will be framed/braced/reinforced properly to "help" prevent wandering cracks in the future. IMO the curb is the quick and easy method and to date I've yet to see the quick and easy ever last long term...at least with block you can go back later and re tuck if necessary.

Alright boyz, I've said my piece so let'r rip

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joasis

I never build stand alone garages (well, hardly ever) and curbs are included on new slab homes. However, we usually taper the form toward the door, and form it right, with grade pins up and bars horizontly tied. We also 45 the bottom of the inside form to allow a trowel finish to edge....

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IHI

I'm sure if I ever came in after a crew that knew wtf they were doing maybe I would'nt hold such a strong grudge against curbs, but the crap I'm left with to build on, the crap I've seen after it's been in place 3-5 years, and the fact I have no control in some jobs whom does the concrete since homies cousin's dad's best friends wifes dad is doing it This is the first job I'm charging extra for starting with crap and will continue to do so from here on out. Right now I'm bidding a garage and stuck in this back and forth Q&A seminar with wife about all the different aspects and trying to give the straight skinney about everything these friggin hacks are filling her head with which are just stupid IMO. But last night she was mulling over the curb vs block and which way to go since they want it 2 rows high. They found out their percieved budget and actual budget were waaay different and they're doing the project nip and tuck as far as options go to get it within their budget and I'm sure a 1 day garage builder is pushing the raised curb for whatever heigth at no more charge other than materials and I'm pushing block since I sent her a picture of what she can expect since these guys dont do the job professionally...they want to be in and out period.

Came here basically looking for more ammo for this fight and future fights since it comes up on EVERY garage bid and is usually the second question out of homies mouth, but like the wife said last night, screw'em LOL!! I've already told them there will be no cuts in labor, just in the options they've choosen to meet budget and if less options cut out labor then I'll reflect it naturally in the contract. I'm just trying to be the freindly contractor answering her e-mails to try and give her the straight scoop.....even after I talked to zoning in person, pulled up the lot and the layout, did the calculations for everything since they have a few property line/easement issues and told her exactly what they could do, she did'nt argue but tried to make it sound like I was full of it since she talked to so-and so in zoning earlier in the day and he said they could and could'nt do this or that...whatever lady, why'd you call me then

Oh well, maybe someday I'll come in after a good crew that does curb and it'll change my opinion, but to date I would'nt use one on my dog house unless I was the one tying steel to keep it all together so the entire slab is'nt crap after 5 years. Still dont understand how they get away with swedge bolts in week old mud....do these fools here think internally it has'nt started the cracking process?? I have one picture of what I'm talking about hapening and I will take another picture in the near future of the addition with poured curb so you can see why I hate it.

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Peladu

Dude, you're pissed!
At the concrete guys and the little old lady who knows more than you.

I am just shocked that guys our size are still doing garages.
I can not even come close to the garage companies prices in Chicago.
Even though they just throw them up and drive away, they still get
most of the business in my area. This, of course, is for detached garages.

maj

I was just sitting here reading your rant Josh, and Peladu kinda said what I was thinking while reading. Why are you trying to compete with the one day garage builders! I know it is easy for me to sit here and say not to do it, because work is work around our neck of the country, but my God man........ Let the cheap ass homies have their cheap ass garages!!!!!

I have built many unattached garages......... on MY OWN slab w/poured curb. These days I try not to do alot of concrete work (occasional sidewalk), BUT..... I still do all the formwork and compacted fill. I set up all the forms, shoot it in with a level transit, measure & square everything, then fill & pack. All formwork is staked solidly plus kickers out about 2'. Basically I do all the critical stuff, then I sub out the placing of the concrete slab.

After the slab is poured, I come back and strip the forms, then set up for the curb. The curb is tied into the slab with rebar about every 2 - 3' , then a horizontal bar is tied to that at center of the curb. I will then pour the curb myself, inserting galv. anchor bolts for use with PT plate. I like to do the curb myself, because like you said, it needs to be dead on.

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IHI

LOL, I'm not pizzed...just alot of things on the brain and I guess that rant came out at the wrong time...sorry fellas, just send me the Dr, Phil bill

I love building garages since it's solid progress from day one, building additions and homes you always seem to hit a rut where at the end of the day you think, what'd we do...price wise, we're on the med high end. I'm not as cheap as the one company I talked to and wonder how he does it, and I'm consistanly $3/sqft less than the 1 day builders but I have much less overhead and if we have to we can build a standard in 2 days from scratch so long as concrete is done ahead of time. But in light of recent events this whole poured curb thing has NEVER worked in my favor when we're hired for the build aspect.

Hence looking for other opinions on pro's/con's between block and poured so other than my rants with personal experiences figured there maybe more pro's/con's I'm over looking.

Oh well, I see I have an email from the gal that knows more than me, shoulda checked it before posting this but I have to muster up the appetite to even read it since I'm now into the dog chasing tail routine with her trying to convince her we're the ones to go with for long term and I'm doing what I've had the best luck with no matter what the 1 day guy says....heck, he's trying to get her to raise the garage 12" above grade because "rain water will be a huge issue coming off the street or down the driveway if the garage is no level with the road"...the road is about 60' away from proposed location and grade variance is maybe 11"

Maj, my trusted long term concrete guy does not like the integrated curb either and when we were looking at a good paying garage and they insisted curb the proposed pour was laid out like you described. I'd just like to build on ONE....ONE level/square non form blown out rolley polly poured wall/curb...or at least be able to use my guys more often for that aspect inistead of all these hacks....guess all these non job holding bums think concrete is the easy job of the trade?

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