Pointing repair - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

jrockw01 · 05-07-2007, 10:28 AM

I'm a general contractor, rarely get involved with masonry work. I hired a mason to do some brickpointing on my own home. Good references, worked in the neighborhood ....

I've attached a couple photos of the work. I'm not happy, the mortar is lapped up on the brick and the mortar joints are not clean.

Question is, is this work acceptable? how can this be repaired? Is it a matter of grinding all the work out and starting over? Or can the laps be cleaned up.

Thanks for any input.

Tscarborough · 05-07-2007, 11:51 AM

If it is fresh (day or two), I would use an acid solution and a stainless steel wire brush. Work the edges and the joints will narrow down. It looks like he tooled the joints while they were still too wet.

jrockw01 · 05-07-2007, 03:38 PM

Unfortunately not fresh, it was done several weeks ago. I stopped him after one day, but a substantial amount had already been done.

I took a chisel out and tried chipping/scraping off the overruns, but it is on there pretty hard. Usually ended up chipping off some of the brick which makes it look even worse.

Brickie · 05-07-2007, 03:58 PM

rub it down

Subia29 · 05-07-2007, 04:29 PM

Try soda blasting on first section he pointed up.I think you'll Be more happier with the results.

stacker · 05-07-2007, 08:47 PM

in looking at the two pix,it looks like the joints are a lot bigger than the older joints.therefore i would grind it all out and start over.
take a hickey and never hire this mason again.

Dik Redi · 05-07-2007, 08:51 PM

Looks like he didnt have a jointer and used a pointer (seems flat), and if he did i doubt he would have even brushed the joints and re-slicked,,( but theres a spot or two that makes it seem as if its a cualking)...good choice on given`em the boot.
( be anti-umbrella )

Dik Redi · 05-07-2007, 08:57 PM

oh and jrock u didnt hire a mason u hired a hack,, hope u didnt pay much.

Tscarborough · 05-07-2007, 08:57 PM

Stacker, the "mason" tooled the joints while wet and smeared the tuckpointing mortar all over the edges. Grinding them out will not remove that. Maybe the soda blasting will work; I have no knowledge of that technique. Using a rubbing stone will also work to a certain extent, but it is hard ass labor. Done very carefully, an acid will remove the smears, but it is more likely that the brick will be burned in the process.

What this illustrates is that there should ALWAYS be a sample area/panel done, both to show competence, and to give a measurable standard by which the completed work can be judged.

Brickie · 05-07-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacker

in looking at the two pix,it looks like the joints are a lot bigger than the older joints.therefore i would grind it all out and start over.
take a hickey and never hire this mason again.

Stacker,

We call what you see in the photos "Chicago-Style Tuck & Run" here in my neck of the woods.

What they usually do is skip grinding all together, soup up their mortar & point all the joints with a 5/8" or larger back filler.

Subia29 · 05-08-2007, 01:50 AM

The soda blast works excellent down here.Union companies use it common after round concave jointing on splitface commercial buildings. Ive seen it done on brick work as well.My thought Its the cleanest fastet way to make Brick shine ,definetly a production thing.,And quite expensive .Check for local Sand blast companies ask for information on soda blasting masonry,Im sure you'll find someone who'll come out and do a Test panel. Think positive ,It can be saved. Looking in Stacker's point of view ,those joints are bigger than the old ones,Did your mason grind down the brick to make the joints uniform?If thats the case ,fire him or have him finished it. Good luck.

jrockw01 · 05-08-2007, 08:30 AM

All, thanks for all the advice, really useful in understanding my options.

Unfortunately we didn't do a trial area. I had looked at a job he had done in the neighborhood and it looked great. For some reason he felt I did not need that quality, or I believe he substituted some hack to do the work. Unfortunately I was traveling when he did the work. I know he didn't grind out the joints, he just did the smear technique. Fortunately the work he did is on the back of the house, but this house is in a valuable neighborhood and my thought was to increase value, not destroy it.

Ideally I would have wanted to leave the 'aging' on the bricks. Seems like in any scenario that option is gone. From what I have gleaned from the posts, seems like the 'best' option at this point is to grind it out, rub down any slop left on the bricks, soda blast the whole area, then point it up the way it should have been down in the first place. I get a clean job, but lose the aging on the bricks.

Please let me know if anyone has a better solution. On the bright side, the hack only got to 2 sections, one about 6'x9', the other 12'x20' (minus a bunch of doors and windows).

By the way, I will be getting the money back for the so-called work this guy did. I had paid 50% down.

jrockw01 · 05-08-2007, 08:35 AM

Also, by the way, this guy was the most expensive out of 3 quotes. No matter how careful you are, you need to stand over the sub's shoulder at the start or you take your chances (at least til you know the guy).

lukachuki · 05-08-2007, 08:38 AM

Are the original joints concaved? They kind of looked like they had been raked, but it's hard to tell.

jrockw01 · 05-08-2007, 08:42 AM

Original joints not concave, although they are sigificantly washed out looks to me as if they were flat. The sand was whiter and larger grained than what the guy used, another thing I wasn't so happy about.

stacker · 05-08-2007, 10:05 AM

tscar,i can tell that he tooled the joints while they were still too wet.that is something i can not get thru to my laborers head,"DONT TOOL WHILE THE JOINTS ARE WET!!!"
the mud over riding the brick could have been avoided to a degree,by brushing the wall after it was tooled and then reslicked.a competent mason will do this.
if this "mason"has done good work in your neighborhood before your job,i would guess he sent one of his hands to do your job while he supervised or was on another job.either way,you didnt get what you paid for,and was wise to run him off.

6stringmason · 05-08-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacker

,"DONT TOOL WHILE THE JOINTS ARE WET!!!"

What? You dont like shiny joints?

plazaman · 05-09-2007, 05:44 PM

Where are you located? id be happy to give my Soda blasting equipment a try.

plazaman · 05-09-2007, 05:55 PM

Sorry to say, looks like the work i see around here done by hacks. Only in high end residential i see proper pointing.

jrockw01 · 05-09-2007, 10:18 PM

Philadelphia, PA

I'll be looking for someone to repair this work and finish the job. If anyone has referrals, please let me know.

Thanks again.

Jeff