Paying The Stone Mason

kermmonk

I have a stone mason laying Virginia thick stone (5 1/2"). He charges by the sguare ft. He measures up the wall, around the bottom of the cap stone,up the side of the cap stone,and over the top of the cap stone! I say he should measure up the heigth of the wall including the cap (much less sq. ft.). Which way is correct?

Thanks,
Kermmonk

DecksEtc

Whatever way the contract states the measurements are taken. Then it's up to you to agree to the price and terms of the contract, or not.

kermmonk

No contract! We are halfway through the job and he springs this weird way to measure on me. Measuring around three sides of the cap stone. On the whole job, it is going to cost me an extra 2,000.00
Kermmonk

1over2

If he has to overhang the cap stone and all 3 sides of the stone has to look good or he has to chisel the stone, then you should pay for it. This scenario is why I hate to work on jobs on a $ per square foot rate.

jvcstone

so what are the dimensions of the cap. Is it a cut stone cap made from cubic stock? Is this a stone veneer over a cmu wall with the cap dressing everything?? Personally I would be including the thickness as well as the width of the cap since stone like that is usually sold by the cubic foot, not Square feet. Don't know if I would be charging for the thickness twice (front and back) unless It needed to be a finished face on both sides of the wall.

JVC

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kermmonk

The cap stone overhangs the wall by about 3". My thinking was that if I pay for three sides of the cap stone, I am paying him 3 times to lay one stone!

Kermmonk

kermmonk

The cap stone is made of Oklohoma stone. Aprx. 5 1/2" thick and 9" wide. When installed against the house foundation, it will overhang the Virginia stone by about 3" and the full 9" will be exposed on the top. The siding will come down against the top of the cap stone.

Kermmonk

1over2

Maybe you could convince him to not include the 3'' underneath in his measurements, but the side and the top should be included.

DecksEtc

This pretty much sums up why you are having a dispute this far into the project.

You set yourself up from day one by not having a contract.

Brickie

That's why you have to have a contract to avoid all this crap. It sounds like it's going to be a big pissing match.

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tkle

Finished surface,thats what I charge for.Except,not without a contract.Caps are expensive,he just doesn't want to work for free.I won't do square foot prices anymore.Everytime I make a cut I lose money...

tkle

but,you're paying by footage not by stone.Same as measuring around a corner.I'm glad I didn't do the job.

jvcstone

I suppose that if your deal was X dollars per Sq Ft of finished wall, he can figure the overhang into his calculations.
Personally, when I was contracting I would give a bid price that took all of those little extras into account, so no surprises for me or the client at the end. (well most of the time) I would most likely have figured the cap stone at a running foot price, but that cost would have been part of an over all number. I don't think it is good business to just shoot out a sq, ft price to a client, even if it is the basis for the bid. Extras need to be extras at the start, not the end.

JVC

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www.jvcstoneworks.com

lukachuki

Well Said,
Tim

tkle

I wasn't figuring the 3" overhang.I guess that is pretty cheap,but if that 3" overhang adds $2000 to the job there must be a lot of overhang.I don't give square foot prices because the owner always ends up adding some really cut up sections and expects it for the same price.

kermmonk

Hey guys thanks for all the input. When the mason quoted the job, he said 12.00 per square ft. My thought was, sq. ft. of stone layed. Evidently he and you guys figure exposed surface area of stone which is a lot more money.
Thanks,
Kermit

stacker

if this was my job and i charged you by the sq ft,i would be measuring the height of the wall,ie, 3 ft.height of cap,ie,6 inches,and the width of the cap,ie,18 in.times length of the wall, lets say is 30 ft long.so we would have a wall 60 inches in height x 30 ft long,equalling 150 sq ft.plain and simple.

everyone is going to be different in the way they charge.i would sit him down and get it straight before he went any further or before long someone is gonna be pissed.and if you hammer out the rules before it get to far along,no one should be unhappy.it sounds like a job i did once,where i charged a lady for every brick i laid,wither it was a one inch piece or a whole brick.she got mad because i didnt tell her before hand that she would pay full price for every cut.and i felt bad because i was charging her 40 cents for a half brick,until i thought.it takes me just as long or longer to lay a half brick as it does a full brick.not only did i have to pay a man to make the cut,the wear and tear on my brick saw and blade.she got even with me tho,her last payment of 500.00 bounced and she stole my frigging brick hammer.

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Icetrout

I want,I want ,I want,but I don't want to pay for it.Just wonder how much kermit give's away in his line of work?Bet not a red cent the way he's carping here.Maybe should have tried his luck with the illegals down on K St. Get what U pay for !!!

artisanstone

I would price the job per finished surface area as well. I would also include the returns at windows and doors. Some people figure the whole wall and don't take out windows and doors!!

Don't worry though, your stonemason is still not making much money at those prices.

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Jaf

He can measure it using cubits, chains, links, or fathoms. Who care's, just look at the bottom line. Get another price if you think its too high.

When I measure, I find all kinds of ways to make sure the I'm over measuring as opposed to under. He may just be covering himself for waste, etc. You may be over tinkin' it.

Then again. The next mason's work might not match this guys.... Contract would of been nice. But even then, if this was a change order... he can measure it with a pygmies foot, and your at his mercy.