Pavers Over Concrete - My Cousin's Method

Vinny

You mean that little walk in the park, and quick trashing they gave the knights? No, I,m not a fan

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Tommy C

Vinny, well they had a tough loss to Cincy. Nice season for UConn though, similar to Rutgers' last year.

Gregpaves

We don't like doing it but if we do.
we set the border stone with glue to water can drain out front and side of the border stones. and only for steps

Engineer54

A medium-sized plaza project (read: oversize patio) at the local Episcopal church in my town was completed a few years ago pretty much the way Tommy C described at the head of this thread. The area was first covered with a wire grid reinforced poured concrete slab, with a raised concrete curb at the same height as the pavers and bedding sand that were put down afterward. The concrete curb functions as an immovable border, containing all the pavers in a sort of "tub". I figure the company that got the job knew what they were doing. It still looks fine. We don't get soil freezing here, because we're within 35 miles of the Pacific Ocean, which prevents temperature extremes, so frost heaving isn't an issue. We do, however, have adobe and clay soils, which tend to liquefy after a couple of months of winter rains. We also have frequent earthquakes, being situated halfway between the Hayward and San Andreas faults, each of which are less than 5 miles away. I've seen some interlocking paver projects in this area that were done "by the book", with no reinforced concrete base, and after a few years they are starting to get wavy and uneven as the adobe subsoil gradually migrates upward into the base rock.

stuart45

Our foreman went on holiday to San Diego and saw the sidewalks being paved using that method. He said that the paving went down really quick, but being a mouthy, know it all git was going to tell the bricklayers that they would have problems in winter. Luckily for him his wife stopped him,as he is not the sharpest tool in the box and didn't realise that a freeze in San Diego is when the temp drops to 69f.

tuffplay

Why are you putting the concrete down? You should tamp the soil and the gravel. put your retaining border in and lay the pavers, the concrete seems like a waste of time, I have never seen anyone do that.

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PaulAndSon

4th generation

About 12 Years ago we did the masonry work on a local shopping mall that was undergoing a major reconstruction & facelift , One day I was watching the paving contractor putting down interlocking pavers in the identical manner that Engineer54 described. To this day those pavers have neither moved, spalled or deteriorated in any way except for a slight change in colour over the years. In fact they look as good as the day they went down & they have been through a dozen Canadian winters complete with salting & other abuses. Yet in the meantime I've also seen the traditional methods fail, so I'm still not all that convinced that this method is as bad as it's made out to be.

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4th gen

jgray152

I understand the process and have debated it for a while.

I would use maybe a mix of fine sand and portland (heavy on the sand) and swept into the cracks. Water it and allow to cure, possibly eliminating the issue of sand getting under the blocks.

Every walkway and patio I see that is done with pavers, all heave in areas and cause high and low spots to form. The concrete pad will eliminate this especially if its internally reinforced.

Of course I don't do pavers any more and just do my carved concrete work but when I was doing pavers I thought about this process but never did it.

NICKPAUS

Depending on soil you must use geotextile fabric between soil and base.If you dont over time the base will migrate into soil especially in adobe.The geotex is not cheap $600 a roll for heavy duty. Putting them over concrete works great here in SO-Cal as it never freezes but you still need to put sand between concrete and pavers or vehicle traffic will crack pavers. The concrete also drives up the price big time as base is only $6 a ton here.

NICKPAUS

For all you wondering best method here you go. After excavation run compactor over dirt to make sure it is compact. Next lay your Geotex fabric down. Depending on traffic loads and soil install up to 12" of base. Usually 4" of base for foot traffic 6-8" of base for normal cars small trucks and 10-12" for large motorhomes and commercial trucks. Lay down no more than 2" of base between compaction intervals if you are using a small plate compactor like a wacker 1550 or multiquip 88 both units around 200lbs and have 5.5 hp motors. If you have a big plate compactor you can go 3-4" of base at a time ( I have a 9hp Wacker BPU3454 that weighs 700+ lbs). Final base must be sloped according. Next screed down 1" of sand to set pavers in. At edge of pavers I use a footing that they are mortared to or a concrete curb like mentioned unless they are butting up to a wall or solid surface. Once they are set spread your joint sand some people use cheap mason sand or expensive polymeric locking sand. Sweep into joints and then run a small plate compactor with neoprene bottom back over pavers to lock them in place. Clean off all excess sand and dust and spray on paver sealer out a Hudson spayer.


A 300 sq ft patio is a one day job for 4 or 2 day with 2 men and bad wheelbarrow access. If job is accessable for skidsteer and dump truck production is much faster. Pavers are $1.79 a foot here and depending on size of job can be completed for less than concrete. Hope this helps.

lukachuki

Ridiculous

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Engineer54

Ha, ha, that's funny! It reminds me of a holiday trip I took in March 2001 to Los Cabos, at the southern tip of Baja California, Mexico. I flew out of San Francisco in fog and drizzle, temperature around 48F, and landed few hours later in Los Cabos in bright sunshine, temperature around 72F. The locals were complaining about the "cold weather".

Mike Finley

Can a pavestone driveway be laid with the road bed method and never show any depressed tire tracks through it forever? Seems the concrete based would ensure this.

Tscarborough

They use pavers on docks and taxiways, so I would assume they can.

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Mike Finley

I've set them both ways discussed here.

But, that has always been my worry that on a driveway over the years. I've seen ones that have those grooves running right up them where the weight of the vehicles have created low ruts running up the driveway.

artisanstone

It's really the subbase that takes the weight. Think about it in comparison to asphalt. Asphalt has almost no resistance to bending and moving around, but the base provides the strength. As mentioned above, some of the heavy-traffic paver installs have 8+ inches of base material under them.

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NICKPAUS

I have done several with 12" of base. Customers with 40' diesel pusher motorhomes. Highways here in CA use up to 36" of base before asphalt.

NICKPAUS

Almost all of them around here sink but its due to installer error. Geotextile fabric adds up quick and some of the big companies around here dont even use it. Another problem I always see is them using small compactor and going over 6" of base at once. My 710 lb Wacker wont fully compact 6" I do 3-4" with it and 2" with little compactor. Any driveway or area subject to vehicles I use big compactor.

NICKPAUS

The $1.79 or my ability to get it done for less than concrete ?

concretemasonry

If you want the proven way to properly install pavers (althought can get away with murder on a sidewalk or patio) look at the Interlocking Concrete Paving Institute site (icpi.org, I think).

The standards there are based on historic past performance from installations around the world. I saw one at a ship unloading facility in India (they did use 100 mm pavers instead of 80 mm paver that are used for driveways) that had 20 or 30 acres (maybe more by now) of pavers set on a compacted base and the traffic was the huge straddle loaders (4 large single or 8 duals) running on the same patterns 24x7. It is really a standard design for similar installations.

Good paver installations are beyong the "this is they we did it" or "my cousin/neighbor says" methods.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.