Parge A Brick Foundation

 
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:55 AM   #1
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Parge A Brick Foundation


Hello everybody. I own a big old victorian from 1887. I have spent the last three years repairing the interior of this place and am glad to say it is finished for the time being. I am looking to tackle the foundation when the weather permits and I am looking for some advice. I scoured the forums on here and have found the proper mortar to use so thanks to all of you masons for posting. I am not a seasoned mason so please dont be too rough on me .

The mortar has eroded just about everywhere that hasnt been parged on the inside so I am going to go ahead and repoint where necessary . There is however some water seeping in on the one corner but I think if I extend the liter pipe from the gutter farther away from the house it should help out with that.

My question is mainly about the parging on the outside. Now I know that using a lime mortar is key as to not destroy the foundation. It has been parged but it is quite old and is eroding away. it doesnt seem to be loose and falling off it looks like it has just wore away over the years. Is it necessary to go below grade ? If so how far do you recommend ? Do you use something to strengthen the outside corners like cornerbead on sheetrock ? Should i fasten mason lathe or could I just go right over the existing parge ? Any input would be great.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:19 PM   #2
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


You dont need to use lime mortar in this way. Point any voids with lime mortar then use California Stucco by Silpro or Utrowel by Umaco for the stucco coat. Give it a sponge finish when its kinda hard and off you go!

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Old 12-28-2011, 04:24 PM   #3
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


Welcome to the talk.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:38 PM   #4
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstick View Post
My question is mainly about the parging on the outside. Now I know that using a lime mortar is key as to not destroy the foundation. It has been parged but it is quite old and is eroding away. it doesnt seem to be loose and falling off it looks like it has just wore away over the years. Is it necessary to go below grade ? If so how far do you recommend ? Do you use something to strengthen the outside corners like cornerbead on sheetrock ? Should i fasten mason lathe or could I just go right over the existing parge ? Any input would be great.
This does not make sense...where did you read that ONLY lime mortar does not destroy foundation?

I personally would NOT parge with lime mortar period.

Make you own parging mix at ratio 1:5: .25 (portland,sand,lime).

If its around 700 sq ft you will need maybe two mixes...or you can use SPEC-MIX brown and scratch. Its top notch material but a little costly,even with good trowel skills you will get maybe 70 sq ft of spread

For one get rid of debris and pressure wash the brick with decent PSI but not too much..

Knock out loose joints and re-point those,if area is not too big,use Spec-Mix Type S,its really good mud for this kind of repointing.

Let it dry and next day cover whole area in Weld-Crete for additional bonding.
Once Weld-Crete dries up a little(about 20-30 mins) start applying abovementioned mix I described to you.

You can and are welcomed to install 1.75 gauge masonry wire,but I see it being lots of headache for you especially if brick material has detiriorated.
You need to do 3 coats: scratch,brown and finish you want.

Some applications do not require finish coat,depending on what pattern you want (for example brick,block pattern) but only brown coat with sponge floating to bring out additives (sand).

I strongly advice you dig 2 to 4 feet across perimeter and also do that whole area if it is possible.

If foundation is rubble,concrete or brick you might be able to discover and close up cracks that have appeared on it.
So I would strongly suggest using all purpose hydraulic portland for your mix.

You would also probably have to look into several water-proofing materials if you discover cracks in 2 to 5 feet area.


I wish you best of luck,if my post does not make sense to you,its time to hire a mason ;.

Edit Knock off old parge...its not Necessary but if its detiriorated and old,I dont see it creating proper bonding.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:12 PM   #5
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


it appears i came to the right place. from what i understood since the foundation was built before the discovery of portland cement the bricks and mortar are much softer and if portland based mortar or parging are used on these older foundations it will cause the foundation to bow and eventually will be destroyed. basically as if the foundation was designed for water to pass through and not be blocked away by the parging. is this correct ?

and yeah im on the fence about just hiring a mason. but if portland is going to kill my foundation i want to know so some yahoo doesnt wreck my house !
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:18 PM   #6
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


Portland was invented in 1824 by an English John Aspidin if memory is right...

I parged several houses late 19 beginning of 20th century with portland based parges (still standing) but I would think at this point syntethics that JBM was talking about might be the right way to go.

Are you certain about your foundation having lime putty and not portland based mix?
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:34 PM   #7
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


thanks for the speedy reply. your right on about the discovery of portland. it was invented in england and eventually made its way here around the 1920's if i remember correctly. i contacted a company that analylizes mortars from old homes in order to match it , after a brief conversation he was sure it was lime due to the age of the home and what it did over the years. it turned to dust. however he never did examine it though.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:39 PM   #8
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstick View Post
thanks for the speedy reply. your right on about the discovery of portland. it was invented in england and eventually made its way here around the 1920's if i remember correctly. i contacted a company that analylizes mortars from old homes in order to match it , after a brief conversation he was sure it was lime due to the age of the home and what it did over the years. it turned to dust. however he never did examine it though.
You sure about that? Portland(again if memory serves right) was widely introduced to public in europe in mid 50s of 19th century and late 70s in some States...I am not entirely sure and not much of an expert,but from sounds of things over century and half any mortar would turn to dust.

If you feel more comfortable with method I describe above I would try to get mortar analyst out there to check your house.

If you ok with synthetics and dont want to go through entire process of mortar analyzation,etc. go with what JBM had to offer.

Either way good luck to you and I entirely appreciate the fact that you are into doing things right.

Usually people jump into doing something in our trade without proper qualification or proper preparation.

Seems like you got stuff going for you,so I wish you all the best with your house. I am sure you can handle it.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:04 PM   #9
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


check this out.

http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/repoi...ndation-11673/
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:06 PM   #10
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstick View Post
Yea you need a grout bag(make sure leather/nylon side in)...and if Tscar said to use lime putty then go with that...hes really respectable around here when it comes to mortar compounds.
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I hate when a profitable job becomes a charitable write off.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:08 PM   #11
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


he sounds like a mad scientist !
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:13 PM   #12
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


More like a

MAD
Scientist

But he is Mr. to you since your a newbe
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:43 AM   #13
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


Please don't use a portland based mix. Portland was around since the mid to late 1800's but was an ADDITIVE. It wasn't until after WWI that Portland began to be the main cementitous ingredient in mortar (in areas.)

Personally I would get rid of any loose parging but leave anything that is still well bonded to the wall. Then clean and repoint, with a lime based mix, maybe 1:2:6 (portland :lime: sand) Next parge over with a slightly softer and richer mix say 1:2.5:8. , You'll probably need 2 coats above grade, one to hide the brick joints and another as a finish coat with a sand finnish. What you do need is for the parging to be the softest layer or you're going to lock water in. Remember that water WILL beat you every time. Use the parging to keep most of the water out,say 99%, but assume that water will get in (at least to the masonry units)and give it a way back out (through the joints and parging).

Please don't use weldcrete. Your bricks can't handle it.

Good luck.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:04 PM   #14
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


If you asked 10 brickayers what is the correct mix for repointing, you you probably get 10 different mixes.
I was taught at college in the 60's to use 3/1 sand /OPC. Before that a stronger mix was advised. The theory was that a really strong mix would last longer than the earlier mix.
It can take 30 or 40 years to find out that the mix has destroyed the brickwork. In that time a few generations of bricklayers have been brought up to use the wrong mix.
The latest thinking is that that a lime mortar mix should contain no OPC.
Even a small amount can affect it's breathing qualities.
I have seen Victorian properties repointed with OPC mortar years ago and been OK, but these were built with really hard bricks. The softer porous ones in exposed areas seem to suffer.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:12 PM   #15
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


^^what he said^^ The last few generations of repair have given me a lifetime of restoration work.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:24 PM   #16
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Glad I've have kept you in work dom-mas
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:02 PM   #17
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


[QUOTE=dom-mas;1371096]

Please don't use weldcrete. Your bricks can't handle it.

[QUOTE]

How come?
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:43 PM   #18
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


the weldcrete is like paiting on a big piece of plastic. It's acrylic or latex based, can't remember which. makes it impossible for the mortar to breathe.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:46 PM   #19
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


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the weldcrete is like paiting on a big piece of plastic. It's acrylic or latex based, can't remember which. makes it impossible for the mortar to breathe.
Really? I gotta admit I did not know that. I been using Weld-Bond(Weld-Crete) quiet successfully with 5 year workmanship warranty for customers and 2.5(3 years in january) years in so far I had no complaints.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:55 PM   #20
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Re: Parge A Brick Foundation


right, it may take 15-20 years. maybe more, maybe less. It's not near as problematic with modern brick which are quite a bit harder than the brick made before 1920.

I've used weldcrete on many concrete foundations, same with liquitex or "milk" or whatever. Just don't use it o old brick. Lime is pretty sticky stuff and works great with old repairs


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