Neighbors Wall Allowing Drainage Into My Yard

Team Scream

Take a look at these pictures.
I had an architect come over today to look at the backyard to help me with the plans required to do the project indicated in my other thread linked below.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f48/backyard-office-retaining-privacy-wall-25047/

If you look closely at the picture of the long block wall, you will see that the bottom course which sits on the exposed footing has drainage slots that drain directly onto my property indicated by the yellow exclamation points I placed on the picture.

I had never even considered this but my architect pointed the slots out to me and upon closer inspection sure enough the footing was wet all along the bottom course.

Again, I am not trying to start a war with my neighbor, but prior to clearing out all of the plants, ivy and trees that were on my property in preparation for my project, I was under the impression that the weight of the neighbors wall was causing the erosion and was the reason the dirt just kept coming closer to my house every year.
It now appears that these drainage holes have a lot to do with why it has been so hard to keep the dirt up on this hill below the wall.

Is it legal for the neighbor to allow his drainage to flow into my yard, OR better yet is it legal to facilitate this drainage by placing drainage slots along the length of this wall which lead directly onto my property?
My common sense tells me no.

Keep in mind if you have not read my other post in this forum, this wall was originally permitted in the early 60's.

K2

I just ran ito this with a neighbor where she asked me to keep my water on my property because she had real issues and it was easy enough for me to do... But.. i didn't go and ask the ten neighbors whose water drains onto my property to keep their water.

If you had a little creek running across your property and the downhill neighbor dammed it up and flooded your property, you'd be po'd.

Tscarborough

You are not getting enough water through those weepholes to erode anything.

stacker

i agree.i was expecting to see some 2in holes to drain from the neighbors yard into yours.those "slots" dont look much bigger than 3/8,maybe a little bigger.now im sure you are getting some water from his yard,but like tscar said,not enough to cause the problems that you have there.looks to me more like lack of proper vegatation,ie.good grass.

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concretemasonry

the slits are not causing the erosion. They are just allowing some of the natural flow of rain runoff instead of directing it to some other property where it did not go originally.

It appears your erosion comes from the slope that was created when your home was built at a level below the existing area. The slope is too steep and you have no ground cover to minimize the erosion.

If you do not correct the erosion problem, you could be responsible for any undermining and/or damage to your neighbors wall in the event of major rains.

The way to minimize the erosion is the construction of a retaining wall with drain tile behind that eventually directs any excess water around your home to the natural drainage pattern before you home was built.

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6stringmason

I agree with all the above. The water coming out of those weeps is minimal.
Seems any significant rainfall in that type of soil would cause your erosion, but not the weeps.

If you dont like it go plug them up. Guaranteed you still have erosion though.

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stacker

in the pictures on the original thread there looks to be the remnants of a retaining wall on his property,but i really cant tell for sure.

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Team Scream

It was not really a retaining wall, it was a 4x4 post every 10 feet with 2x12's starting at ground level going up to near the top of the slope.
This "retaining" structure had long since fallen apart by the time I bought the property (2 years ago) and was not holding back any dirt at all, it was a rotted crumbling mess that you could topple with a good solid kick if need be.

stacker

i would venture to guess that,that would be a major cause for the erosion on your side of the wall then.the original homeowner probably built it and didnt use treated lumber and it rotted.with lack of vegation and with no support for the dirt,any rains that come your way will wash away your soil and continue to until you get control of the problem.a new retaining wall of some type is needed badly.and like tscar said,it might cause your neighbors wall to come tumbling down.and you will have one hella headache then.
good luck.

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barbie13607

"Is it legal for the neighbor to allow his drainage to flow into my yard, OR better yet is it legal to facilitate this drainage by placing drainage slots along the length of this wall which lead directly onto my property?"
My common sense tells me no.

State statutes generally regulate how drainage is treated between property lines. Local Ordinances also.

Most statutes designate "existing flow patterns" are to remain substantially in place. Ya' can't block the stream or change its course. You have to provide a path for existing flow, which does not significantly alter flow patterns.

I don't know where you are or I would have looked up your state.

You might try your governing body and ask them. Also, a topo map of the area might help. I know that isn't the answer you were hoping for, sorry. I done testified in court on this here issue a time 'er two.

Best of luck.

RAY MERCHANT

RETAINING WALL WOULD BE THE RIGHT CHOICE
WHAT SOME 4'' DRAINS .ABOUT EVERY 4 FOOT

gregj

You're joking right?

In your other post you say this wall was built in 1962. So you bought a house in a hole and you think it's somehow the neighbors problem that water flows downhill? Be thankful that your neighbor built a nice looking wall that was obviously well designed and built.

The main problem I see is that the poorly built retaining structure on your property failed and it's failure is threatening your neighbors wall - not the other way around.

Don't plug up the weep holes or you will be responsible for any damage the water pressure does to the wall.

Team Scream

Um...no....no joke here bud.
I did not buy a house in a hole, I bought a house on a hill.
Where on earth do you pull your facts from? Same place you just pulled your head out of?

First:
Why am I liable for my neighbors drainage?
Why should I have to deal with his water or drainage?
Would it then be legal for me to collect all the water coming off his property onto mine and route it right into the neighbors yard who is below me? I dont think so.

If the existing wall was built properly then it would have accounted for drainage and NOT routed it down into my back yard but rather out to the street/gutter or at least out to the front of the property dont you think?

Second:
If he were to apply for a permit for his that wall today, he would be REQUIRED to build it differently, in other words he would be required to adequately deal with drainage from his property.
He would NOT be allowed to direct water drainage down into my property PERIOD.

Third:
Those holes in the existing wall are closer to 3/8" wide each and damn near 3/4" tall, they are not small and they exist at EVERY block along the bottom of the wall, there is enough room for a decent amount of water to come through each one of them.

Finally:
I am building a retaining wall, and I am going to deal with drainage properly and legally however I dont want to spend a dime more than I have to or be required to over engineer my wall due to the fact that the neighbors wall/drainage is flawed.
I am not certain it is flawed, I was reaching out for advice on the matter, providing pictures so people could see what I am up against.
I dont appreciate the tone of your reply, for some reason it just rubs me the wrong way.

concretemasonry

Tean Scream -

Just take a look at the laws regarding drainage without the paranoid emotion. Remember, you bought a house on the SIDE of a hill.

You must let the water follow the natural drainage pattern, which is downhill and you are downhill. You cannot change the amount of water that originally went downhill. You cannot dump extra water on someone else's property that did not go there before the changes.

What you you going to do with the water from your property? You are obligated to let it follow the natural patterns until you get to a defined drainage path (ditch, stream, gutter, storm sewer). I really don' think you are going to collect it on your property for a "dry" day or sell it in a bottle for big bucks.

I am sure someone that spent that kind of money on the wall did not go to the extra trouble and expense for drains for no reason. It may have been necessary since he was not allowed to divert the water to someone else's property and he had to let it follow the natuarl downhill pattern.

If you start fooling around with drainage patterns, you will get in trouble with the engineers that design the storm sewers and surface drainage. I am surprised that someone did not complain about the erosion and silt from your unprotected slope. It is detrimental to any storm sewer system. - If it was a construction site, you would have to line the area with yellow tape, mesh and bales of hay.

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Team Scream

Hey guys, to all of you who are interested, I finished the wall.
Below are some pictures of wall and some of the guys who threw the blocks and slung the mud.
It came out amazingly well and now I don't have to worry about erosion, I also gained over 6 feet in width on that side of my house which is HUGE when considering this is a tiny lot.

The digging begins:



And continues:



Almost Done removing dirt (7 rock boxes, over 60 tons of dirt ALL removed by hand and wheel barrow:




All dimensions, rebar and tie off inspected, wet setting the first course:





2 days later, the wall is complete, we waited 7 days to back fill and compact with a machine 93 feet long x 5 feet high cap stones to follow in a few weeks now on to excavating and pouring the foundations for 2 detached offices in the back yard which will include retaining wall segments behind each office building:



What do you think? P.S. the one grout joint you see empty is now filled, this wall has passed final inspection by the city, and required NO engineering, built using the standards the city provides, HOWEVER since I had engineering done on the monolithic foundation/retaining wall segments for the offices I am building I had him do calc's on the wall and the city standards were beefier so we built it that way.

concretemasonry

Looks good. Stepped retaining walls do require more square footage then one wall, but less (or none) engineering than a single high wall. Everything was cut pretty close to get the city to allow a standard "canned" plan, but it was probably less of a hassle.

Sometimes you have to go through more effort and cost when the land vakues are high.

Just make sure you take care of all the drainage (above grade and below grade). Mother nature always seems to provide some moisture, especially when it is not needed.

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tkle

Looking at the 2nd set of pictures it appears the problem wasn't the weepholes,but the fact that your neighbors footing may have been to high.It should have been 1' below 5' away.He should have been responsible for retaining his own property,not you.This also would have put the required weepholes lower where they would be less damaging.Also as you pointed out,his drainage should have been to the street.Not your yard.Once a structure is built drainage is no longer natural.Water is concentrated by the roof and channeled by the structure itself.This is generally done by grading and is not as such a problem generated by the wall.Which is one reason I was so quick to defend the wall.However the weeps could have been plugged and a drainage system installed.It was hard to tell the degree of slope from the 1st picture but from judging the later ones,you were totally right,but perhaps for the wrong reason.

Team Scream

Thanks for the reply TKLE, and Concrete, I appreciate it.
It is all behind me now as my new wall is in place which was my plan all along with this property.

I did not want to have to over engineer my new wall to compensate for deficiencies in his wall.

In the end it all worked out OK, as I did not have to go to any extraordinary measures to get my wall built, I earned back more than 600 square feet of usable space on the side of my house, got the slope moving away from my house in a manner that will facilitate proper drainage when we are finished with the project and did not piss anybody off in the process.

All in all I think it worked out perfectly so far.

woodmagman

I would be more concerned if the wall did not have those drain holes. Plug them and the wall will cease to exist next time you get frost....

neolitic

Magman--
Check out the vegetation! I don't think deep freeze is a problem there

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