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Mortar mixing ratio

267K views 170 replies 36 participants last post by  Tscarborough 
#1 ·
Ok dumb question time. As some of you may know Im still new to the brick laying trade. So far I have only done some small projects and heve been using the premixed morter. I now have a project that would be better using some sand and cement and mixing my own morter.
What I need to know is what is the best mix ratio. I have looked around the internet and found a few charts that only confuse me. So I figure that I had better consult the all knowing wise masters on this one.
Thanks in advance
Smitty
 
#27 · (Edited)
Once again it depends on what you are doing,though 15 to a bag seems awfully rich for most applications,perhaps firebrick.Generally I like to keep a 2.5 to 1 ratio.The thinner the bedjoint the richer the mud.Shovels work fine for doing block work.About 20 shovels(fully loaded contractor grade squarepoint) to a bag depending on the fineness of the sand.Other applications I've gone as far as to weigh the color and accuratly measure the sand and cement with a bucket.
When using a hose and shovel to mix the tender must know the look and feel of properly mixed mud.Keeping the same mudman on the entire job keeps the mix constant.
 
#28 ·
shovels

i have always used shovels to measure my sand.18 full square point shovels to a bag of mason.i have tried to teach my mud man FULL!!!shovels.my biggest problem is when it comes to half batches(yes i mix half batches)this dumb sob i have working for me now,6 times out of 10 will mix it too wet and add 2 to 3 extra sands to it.:no: and then argue with me that he mixed what i told him too.now if i had a nickel for every batch of mud i have mixed,i wouldnt be working now.a good mason and a good mud man can tell if the mud is right by looks.if he cant by looks he sure as hell should be able to by feel.
you will never get the same mix when using shovels or buckets.the only time i have found mud to be the same batch after batch is when SPEC MIX is used.your mud man would have to be so dumb he couldnt pour pee out of a boot with instructions on the heel,to mess that up.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I am not foolish enough to think that proper techniques will be used on jobsites to mix mortar. I would not presume to tell you how to mix your mud anyway, but I will suggest how you should make your mortar to pass the generally accepted requirements.

Use a five gallon bucket for sand; filled to the top ring, it is one cubic foot by volume. One bag of portland is also one cubic foot by volume, as is one bag of type S lime (not really, but close enogh, so long as you are consistant). Knowing those facts, it is a simple thing to create consistant mortar that will meet the specification of the job, as well as maintain color consistancy and workability. Utilize C-270 to determine what mortar you should be using, or if the type is specified, how you can achieve the proper mix. It isn't hard to do, it is just hard to change from "the way I have always done it".

Here is a good website to read:

http://www.mc2-ice.com/popular_conversion/popular_conversion_files/masonry/mortar.htm
 
#30 ·
Tscarborough said:
I am not foolish enough to think that proper techniques will be used on jobsites to mix mortar. I would not presume to tell you how to mix your mud anyway, but I will suggest how you should make your mortar to pass the generally accepted requirements.

Use a five gallon bucket for sand; filled to the top ring, it is one cubic foot by volume. One bag of portland is also one cubic foot by volume, as is one bag of type S lime (not really, but close enogh, so long as you are consistant). Knowing those facts, it is a simple thing to create consistant mortar that will meet the specification of the job, as well as maintain color consistancy and workability. Utilize C-270 to determine what mortar you should be using, or if the type is specified, how you can achieve the proper mix. It isn't hard to do, it is just hard to change from "the way I have always done it".

Here is a good website to read:

http://www.mc2-ice.com/popular_conversion/popular_conversion_files/masonry/mortar.htm
That's a good link, gonna bookmark that one!
 
#31 · (Edited)
Tscarborough said:
"the way I have always done it".
"the way I have always done it" has seemed to always work though. :) :) One thing I have learned is always try to do a good job and work smarter not harder. Instead of taking the 20 shovels of sand(spade) and dumping them into a bucket, then into the mixer, I opt to teach my guys to grab consistent sized shovels and remove a step. I've never had a problem with discoloration or "patchy" looking mortar on any of my jobs. Generally its fairly simple for us as well as we only make one batch at a time.

Although its handy info to know. Thanks for the link!
 
#32 ·
I use the bucket method mainly for mixing colored grout.Mainly with silica sand.Staying with the same brand names is as important if not more when working with color.Some cements are dark and dirty looking while others are light and take on color better.Different grades of sand also makes a difference in the mix as well.Depending on the job size using a 2.5 gallon bucket makes it easier to make half batches as does using a measuring cup for color making sure it's packed the same each time.
 
#33 ·
labor

One thing I have learned is always try to do a good job and work smarter not harder. Instead of taking the 20 shovels of sand(spade) and dumping them into a bucket, then into the mixer, I opt to teach my guys to grab consistent sized shovels and remove a step.
to me that is one of the most important things a man can teach on the job.reduce the number of steps to achive the results.if you are using 18 shovels of sand in your mix,your labor has to fill the bucket with sand,then lift it into the mixer.cut out the step and achive the same thing by having him throw it into the mixer.if he cant learn to consitantly make the same batch after a week or so,fire his ass.i tell my hands masonry is the same thing over and over everyday.the rules dont change from day to day.i want my mud the same everyday,i want my wall stocked the same everyday,i want my scaffold built the same.if i change the rules,ill tell them before we start.i had a laborer once who couldnt get the mix right.i needed help so bad i couldnt fire him,so instead i started docking him 25.00 per messed up batch of mud.after 75.00 he learned to make good mud.
 
#37 ·
For the last 80 years we have been using 26 heaping round point shovels of sand, 1 94# bag of portland and 1/2 a bag of lime as the mix for block. 22 shovels for brick. 22 shovels but no lime for stone. We've had great success with these mixes in the New England climate. This mix was before mixers, just tubs, hoe, hod stand and hod.

I wanted to say something about the consistency of the mix but I found myself starting off on a tangent so I deleted it. 43 years ago at the age of ten I learned the reasons for consistency in no uncertain terms and haven't forgotten. "It has to be important to you" to be consistent.

Nick
 
#39 ·
Here we do mostly a native field stone it can range from a hard limestone to granite depending where it comes from. Most of it is somewhere in between for hardness. Here people want that weathered NE look.


Nick
 
#41 ·
I enjoy your posts Tscar. And appreciate your thoughts.

Nick
 
#43 ·
misinformation

Not tryin to be a know it all, but there is a lot of misleading tips on here about using a 5 gallon bucket to scale a cubic foot...I wonder where this comes from? f.y.I.,volume is volume, and there are almost 7.5 gallons of volume in a cubic foot of space, so can someone please explain how less than 5 gallons of portland can possibly be equal to the 7.5 gallons of volume needed to make 1 cubic foot?
 
#44 ·
How do the new people find these threads? I wasn't even born yet the last time this one was active.

And FYI a bucket is 2/3 a cubic foot.
 
#50 ·
If you look at the specifications for mortar, there is an appendix that offers som great direction on the type of mortar to use and it non-binding.

It says that you should use the weakest mortar possible because other properties are diminished when you go to higher strengths. Obviously, the most important property is workability (second to not having a few stones in the mortar).
 
#53 ·
the most accurate way to measure is with 5gal buckets

i would never use a shovel as a measuring tool,especially for a pointing mix.
[1 part = 1 5 gal bucket]
for laying brick: 2 part sand
1 part cement
1/2 part lime

pointing mix 3 part sand
1 part cement
1/2 part lime

this of course just being the basic formula but as a rule of thumb

i always add a half bucket of lime for every full bucket of cement.



for smaller jobs i will just use Portland and sand

or if really small just some premixed quikrete type s
 
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