Lintel Blocks?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-22-2017, 02:15 PM   #1
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 2,702
Rewards Points: 1,402

Lintel Blocks?


I just got a quote for about 20 lintel blocks. 33 something bucks a piece, and a $450 set-up fee.

This is from Basalite.

I said "no thanks, I'll form the bottom of the bond beam".

Do guys not use these anymore? I remember them being fairly common when I was a truck driver for a building materials company in the late '90's.



Delta
__________________
I have an Edifice Complex.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 09-22-2017, 02:37 PM   #2
Pro
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry consultant
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MSP, Minnesota
Posts: 3,351
Rewards Points: 2,832

Re: Lintel Blocks?


What do you consider a "lintel block"?

The unit price is high, but the set-up charge is lower than most producers should charge.

Must be an unusual shape unit. The mold costs for most common units could be about $10,000 (new mold).

When I was involved in making and supplying block, we would charge $500 to $1000 per set-up (plant down time) for specialty shape for one job.

We were in the business of making block and selling them to masonry suppliers, contractors and other block producers. - We normally had 1200 different block shapes and weights/materials in our minimum inventory of about 2,000,000 block. We sold 12,000, 000 to 16,000,000 block a year.

I am surprised that Basalite did not have specifically what is required in inventory since they are a good producer.

Advertisement

__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 40 countries.
concretemasonry is offline  
Old 09-22-2017, 02:45 PM   #3
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 2,702
Rewards Points: 1,402

Re: Lintel Blocks?


Yea, I was surprised too, as it was a stock item when I worked at the supply house.

It's just a 8-8-16 closed bottom bond beam.

Since it isn't a stock item, I'm assuming most masons don't use them for door and window openings anymore. Maybe they just form the bottom of a standard bond beam, like I'm going to do. I dunno, I'm not a mason. Just play with it from time to time.



Delta
__________________
I have an Edifice Complex.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is offline  
   
 
Old 09-22-2017, 02:46 PM   #4
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 578
Rewards Points: 490

Re: Lintel Blocks?


The question is probably very regional. If I say lintel, it's either angle iron or 4x8x xx reinforced cmu's. I'm imagining a bondbeam block with a closed bottom from your comments, but I've never seen one.
artisanstone is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to artisanstone For This Useful Post:
Seven-Delta-FortyOne (09-22-2017)
Old 09-22-2017, 03:08 PM   #5
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 2,702
Rewards Points: 1,402

Re: Lintel Blocks?


Quote:
Originally Posted by artisanstone View Post
The question is probably very regional. If I say lintel, it's either angle iron or 4x8x xx reinforced cmu's. I'm imagining a bondbeam block with a closed bottom from your comments, but I've never seen one.
Probably. I'll see some angle iron, but because we fill every core here, you need a closed bottom block.



Delta
__________________
I have an Edifice Complex.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is offline  
Old 09-22-2017, 04:30 PM   #6
Pro
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry consultant
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MSP, Minnesota
Posts: 3,351
Rewards Points: 2,832

Re: Lintel Blocks?


It is really a regional problem/situation. To bad the local contractors and engineers do not look at the big picture.

There is really no good reason to grout every core in a block unless you have steel every 8" on center. The grout adds little to the strength of a wall if it is not to grout the steel in place.

Based on looking at masonry construction in 45 countries for the past 50 years or so, the ideal configuration for a block is to have a single core in the center that is formed by 2 cross webs 8" on center with open half cores on the ends.

All webs line up vertically for stack or running bond. It also works perfectly for unreinforced construction. The block meet the ASTM standards for concrete masonry units and they were a little lighter. Many contractors just don't like to handle a block with 2 hands and prefer to pick them up and lay them with one hand on the center web of an old fashioned 2 core 8x8x16 block. We made the double H, 2 web block for 4", 6", 8", 10",12" 14" and 16" walls.

Unfortunately, some contractors never saw the light go on, but that is human and regional situation. Some even like the old fashioned 3 core block. There are many things contractors never bother to think about to make things better, easier and more sensible. - Do you realize that block has a top and bottom?
__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 40 countries.
concretemasonry is offline  
Old 09-22-2017, 04:51 PM   #7
Pro
 
SouthonBeach's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 457
Rewards Points: 899

Re: Lintel Blocks?


In FL we order a lintel beam. It's a precast U shaped beam to span what ever opening we need.
We order it from a different company then the block company.
SouthonBeach is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to SouthonBeach For This Useful Post:
fjn (09-22-2017)
Old 09-22-2017, 05:39 PM   #8
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 2,702
Rewards Points: 1,402

Re: Lintel Blocks?


Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
It is really a regional problem/situation. To bad the local contractors and engineers do not look at the big picture.

There is really no good reason to grout every core in a block unless you have steel every 8" on center. The grout adds little to the strength of a wall if it is not to grout the steel in place.

Based on looking at masonry construction in 45 countries for the past 50 years or so, the ideal configuration for a block is to have a single core in the center that is formed by 2 cross webs 8" on center with open half cores on the ends.

All webs line up vertically for stack or running bond. It also works perfectly for unreinforced construction. The block meet the ASTM standards for concrete masonry units and they were a little lighter. Many contractors just don't like to handle a block with 2 hands and prefer to pick them up and lay them with one hand on the center web of an old fashioned 2 core 8x8x16 block. We made the double H, 2 web block for 4", 6", 8", 10",12" 14" and 16" walls.

Unfortunately, some contractors never saw the light go on, but that is human and regional situation. Some even like the old fashioned 3 core block. There are many things contractors never bother to think about to make things better, easier and more sensible. - Do you realize that block has a top and bottom?
I do realize that.

I'm using open end bond beams ( H-block ) for the whole basement, except corners, obviously.

And yes, I have an 8" O.C. rebar pattern for the first 2 feet up, and 16" O.C. above that, except above door and window headers, where it goes back to 8" O.C. Then there is an extra vertical around all openings. And the horizontal pattern is also 16" O.C. (every other course).

And an extra horizontal above all headers.

Hence the closed bottom bond beam.





Delta
__________________
I have an Edifice Complex.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is offline  
Old 09-22-2017, 05:49 PM   #9
Pro
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry consultant
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MSP, Minnesota
Posts: 3,351
Rewards Points: 2,832

Re: Lintel Blocks?


SouthonBeach -

What is the wall thickness and what is the span/length?

What do you use to place the beams?

Some of those can get pretty heavy and hard to handle and set in place.

As block producer, we had some employees "moon-light" that made 4" thick masonry lintels from 3 block to 6 block long. - We had plant fork lifts available and boom trucks for delivery and the "moon lighting" employees were the Laborers union steward and one of our Teamster union truck drivers that worked off the clock. We sold the 4" thick lintels to fireplace contractors and brick/masonry material suppliers. The 8" thick lintels were sold to people that had the ability to handle and set them.
__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 40 countries.

Last edited by concretemasonry; 09-22-2017 at 05:52 PM.
concretemasonry is offline  
Old 09-23-2017, 12:05 AM   #10
Pro
 
SouthonBeach's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 457
Rewards Points: 899

Re: Lintel Blocks?


Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
SouthonBeach -

What is the wall thickness and what is the span/length?

What do you use to place the beams?

Some of those can get pretty heavy and hard to handle and set in place.

As block producer, we had some employees "moon-light" that made 4" thick masonry lintels from 3 block to 6 block long. - We had plant fork lifts available and boom trucks for delivery and the "moon lighting" employees were the Laborers union steward and one of our Teamster union truck drivers that worked off the clock. We sold the 4" thick lintels to fireplace contractors and brick/masonry material suppliers. The 8" thick lintels were sold to people that had the ability to handle and set them.


Wall thickness is around 1-1/4" thickening at the bottom with reinforcement bars in it.
Most common is 8" with 6", 10" & 12" available.
They start at 3' long and go up to 24'
For the short ones a few labors will set them, the longest we've hand set was 12'. Had 6 guys lifting it.
Most of the time we will schedule the delivery of the long ones with the masons on site. The delivery driver will set them with the moffit lift for us.
Castcrete is one of the big manufacturers of them around here.
SouthonBeach is online now  
Old 09-25-2017, 06:44 PM   #11
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mid west
Posts: 1,459
Rewards Points: 5,123

Re: Lintel Blocks?


If I needed just 20 lintel blocks ( old school U shaped smooth bed bond beams, I 'd just plaster up the bottoms(actually the thicker,smoother 'top' of the C beam) of some California style bond beam units a day or two ahead of the laying of the wall, a chunk of mesh embedded to toughen them up if needed/paranoid....

even using a piece of stucco mesh for grout stop speeds plastering the bottoms later.....If no time left for the day ahead prep.

no charge for that one, 7D-41.

Some company in Florida has hollow galvanized lintel "tubes" 8" x 8" that are design for hurricane code garage doors and patio doors, filled before or after "laying", rebars can be added to raise load caps ratings/ fire rating.

England has sheet metal bent lintels that have been used for decades on veneer construction and 2 wythe masonry residential/ light commercial, with a much lower thermal bridge then conventional U.S style I-beams and base plates. but not for super high loads.

The originals were name catnic lintels for the inventor/manufacturers kids....

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 09-25-2017 at 07:03 PM.
Fouthgeneration is offline  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:52 AM   #12
Pro
 
dbrons's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Carlsbad CA
Posts: 402
Rewards Points: 602

Re: Lintel Blocks?


out here we just use open end half blocks 8x8x8. If you don't have them you could open up one end of regular half blocks wth a saw and lay them on a 2x8 header with the solid end down. Usually calls for two #5 rebars.

Dave
dbrons is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to dbrons For This Useful Post:
Fouthgeneration (10-04-2017)
Old 10-04-2017, 07:24 PM   #13
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mid west
Posts: 1,459
Rewards Points: 5,123

Re: Lintel Blocks?


In regards to the job site and block plant pre cast lintels, the need for seismic and structural rebars installed through the lintel sections pretty much run them off.
Fouthgeneration is offline  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:45 PM   #14
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 2,702
Rewards Points: 1,402

Re: Lintel Blocks?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrons View Post
out here we just use open end half blocks 8x8x8. If you don't have them you could open up one end of regular half blocks wth a saw and lay them on a 2x8 header with the solid end down. Usually calls for two #5 rebars.

Dave
There's certainly a lot of options. I'll just form the bottom of the bond beam for this project.

I just think it's interesting that no one uses them. I thought they were commonplace.



Delta

Advertisement

__________________
I have an Edifice Complex.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cutting house wrap around a steel lintel franzkh Windows, Siding and Doors 13 03-25-2016 11:53 AM
Squash blocks for I-joists woodchuck2 Construction 13 11-22-2013 10:38 PM
Festool MFT/3, or...??? mattsk8 Tools & Equipment 19 04-18-2013 09:14 AM
Steel Tubing Lintel Strength 6stringmason Masonry 16 10-04-2012 10:12 PM
Glass blocks are cracking ToTheT1 Windows, Siding and Doors 16 12-18-2010 11:47 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?