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Lick and stick average time frame.

42K views 137 replies 32 participants last post by  stonebuilder 
#1 ·
Ok so I have been called a mad man today. Twice.

First time by General Contractor and second time by some trash that called himself cultured stone installer(One of those who can't spend 50$ on trowel so he just dips stone into mortar pan).

Reason this happened is because I said with full confidence that on straight run I can put up 175-200 sq ft of cultured stone a day by myself(helper to bring the mortar).

I actually skimmed through posts and people say 75-150 ish...really that little?

Am I misunderstanding something here? How much can you do in 8 hour shift?

Last one I did I put up 212 sq ft in 10 hour shift. When I saw that yoyo "installer" (nice new word for the idiots) open his mouth I turned away and walked. Plenty more money out there.
 
#43 ·
Wire is up,just gonna put corner beads for crisp edges :)...-17 today so got couple of days off.

Planning on scratch coating everything in a day on tuesday (+6 C),wednesday will be +3,thursday should be +5...so will take gamble that accelerator combined with insulated tarps will keep it warm enough (overnight will be -1-4)

Not sure whether to heat or not,any thoughts?
Thinking plus temperatures during the day combined with accelerator should do the trick.

Also waiting on archie to approve my idea of subbing flashing for stone sill for aestetics.
 
#44 ·
That is some unfortunate weather you're experiencing, I'm aiming that towards the trade. I'd imagine that if you could get your work to stick and there are no expected outside forces to disturb it, (other than the weather), It will cure in the spring. I'm just advocating that it's O.K. to lay if you are getting the culture stone to stick till the end of the day without falling off. The worst that could happen is having to piece in some bits that may fall off. If that did happen you could inspect the site at a later date. If it's sticking now there's not going to be any substantial foreseeable problems- IMO.
 
#55 ·
I had a condo job a few years ago that had a chimney at each end of the building. I taught 2 helpers/apprentices to build the scaffolding, paper, wire, scratch, install and strike off the joints and tear down the scaffolding. Total was 320 square ft. They did it in 2 1/2 days. They were happy and I was able to work on other things. A win for everyone.
 
#57 ·
I know i can't do 200 sqft in a day. But I also make a hell of an attempt to hide all my cuts. Drives me nuts to see the cut stone. My average is 75sqft myself but that includes time for lath and parge. I don't do alot of cultured stone type stuff so maybe that's why and I almost always get asked to do dry fit ledgestone. Actually I could see 200 pretty easy with profit.

Please explain the use of corner bead for the corners.
 
#58 ·
.

Please explain the use of corner bead for the corners.
well for one I am perfection freak sometimes and I like crisp edges on my scratch coat.

I also find you need to give jointing to two sheets meeting on the corner and making your own in cases where you have bull-nose corners is not acceptable(not for me anyway)...corner pieces are made under 90 degree angle and you going have to put more mortar on back than necessary if you had 90 degree corner.

Maybe I am just wasting money but for 2$ 8 ft pieces its worth it.
 
#61 ·
well... colour me clueless as well. I've never used corner beads for masonry... maybe tile or drywall. (Not that I'd consider cultured stone to be masonry in the truest sense of the word...)
Perhaps you could help the ignorant among us out a little Mr. Italian.
 
#65 ·
The stucco guys in florida do corner beads on the corners and all the build out bands and whatnot are actually metal then stuccoed.

It sounds like he likes his corners to be crisp.

Although the corners of the stone usually are rounded to a degree, Italian you might end up with some of them not sitting flat on their returns.

Either way somehow this section ends up civil and without personal attacks, be cool if it stayed that way.
 
#79 · (Edited)
returns.

Either way somehow this section ends up civil and without personal attacks, be cool if it stayed that way.
Of course! We all know masons are the cream of the construction crop and as such we treat each other with dignity and respect even if we disagree. The true test of our civility, is when the topic is "adhered veneer", people like bytor probably have to wash their fingers and go to confession after participating in such discussion. But with the crappy economy and all us mere mortals are reduced to this.
 
#66 · (Edited)


For Educational Purposes.

Thats Masonry Corner bead.

I do a lot of subs for larger masonry company where foam/EIFS foam ends up on the wall and after archie decides to go with cultured stone it(foam) stays hanging on there.

Lots of this foam has been "bullnosed(rounded" by rasp trowel) which creates difficulty of creating 90 degree corners.

I am not saying putting more mortar on corner piece where necessary is not acceptable.
I am saying in my climate with lots of freeze/thaw action it its not advisable.

And I have been taught,that regardless of the situation always overlap the wire,especially on the corners.
We used to make our own corner beads until came across this stuff.

I have been doing corner beads for all my masonry,stucco jobs ever since I have been in business. I dont know whats the problem and how the hell most of you never heard of it.

I did not mean to come across as a douche,but it just seems weird to me that you have not heard of it.
 
#68 ·
Who cares what it's called. scratch coat or parging. I'm a unit installer, i don't do stucco. Question. How do you attach your diamond lath on ICF buildings? I've only done one and ended up using screws with washers or screws with large flat heads, normally used for particle board. Slow and expensive compared to roofing nails on a typical stud framed wall.
 
#69 · (Edited)
We go with one of the two methods,either one you described above or we retrofit plastic/wooden furring.

Generally its .5/1 inch foam that is easy to furr,sometimes we come across 2/3 inch foams,thats when screws come in handy

I had access to 4 inch insulation nails with plastic caps but those are discontinued around here(unfortunate).

I prefer screws with washers.

Wait a second,I just realised your question. I did not read attentively so I did not realise you talking ICF. Above described is for EIFS/Polysterene.

All ICF around here comes pre-furred with plastic strips to nail into. Ones that dont,you have to hammerdrill into concrete.
 
#70 ·
I think in general the stucco trade in Canada uses various types of stucco on residential homes more then we do in the states. On an episode of homes on homes or whatever that guys name is, he hires a crew to go over an old chimney with EIFS and they did it like it was nothing out of the ordinary.

I was puzzled why they did it like that, but it did look sharp, just dont touch it lol.
 
#71 · (Edited)
I think in general the stucco trade in Canada uses various types of stucco on residential homes more then we do in the states. On an episode of homes on homes or whatever that guys name is, he hires a crew to go over an old chimney with EIFS and they did it like it was nothing out of the ordinary.

I was puzzled why they did it like that, but it did look sharp, just dont touch it lol.
Yea I know what you mean. I have done several re-caps like that and they stand nicely. There is specific procedure to do it properly.

If its chimney,I make sure brick and joints are sound,re-point and sub bricks if necessary.

I am relatively new to EIFS systems however the right way of doing it is using notch trowel and puttin foam over the top of existing subtrade,then base coating and finishing.

I agree with you,even though its acceptable,7-8 years down the road child's kick puts a big ass hole in the wall.
 
#72 ·
Italian,

You must have access to alot better cultured stone in Canada than we do in the States, because the back side of most corners here is anything but a 90 degree angle. I've used the corner bead you posted, just never saw the need on a cultured stone wall that was meant to look irregular anyways, especially since you still need to lap the lath around the corners.
 
#74 ·
Most of the Cultured Stone and Eldorado I have used/seen is 90 degree plus or minus 3-4 degrees. It is an artifact of the manufacturing process, and it is best to plan on the corners NOT being square (on the inside surface, of course) and also being thicker than flats.

I prefer 1A cornerbead for stucco finish applications, but for adhered veneer, I have never seen anyone use anything but wire corners that give you full coverage on the edge.
 
#86 · (Edited)
I use a type S or N mortar on top of my diamond lath. Same as i use to lay the stone up with. I then scratch it with a notched trowel. I call it parging, you call it scratch coat, maybe I apply a parging and you apply a scratch coat. I don't know and really it doesn't matter too much to.

Any recipe I've seen for scratch coat or "brown" coat have both a portland and lime content (or admixture). So does any mortar that I'd usr for laying up or applying parging or cultured stone. Same stuff, pefhaps slightly different consistency.

Oh and I wasn't stressing you calling corner-rite corner bead but it's a product I've never seen and I haven't really seen any cement based stucco in over a decade and certainly never applied it (never applied any type of stucco). Whenever I hear of cornerbead it's to do with drywall, nothing at all to do with masonry. I still can't see the point in using it but if you like to it doesn't bother me much at all.
 
#87 · (Edited)
Parging is generally used to denote one coat of stucco over a masonry surface. Again, generally, parging is done for reasons not pertaining to appearance, but for reasons of smoothing airflow (chimneys and throats), waterproofing (below ground level or inside planters), or some other reason that is not strictly decorative.

Edit- The three layers of traditional stucco are also named to allow precision of discussion and specification. Base/scratch coat, brown coat, finish coat. Each of those could be considered to BE a parge coat since they use the same techniques and materials, but the usage is imprecise and confusing. Kind of like calling concrete cement.
 
#90 ·
I use the term 'Parging' too. I first learned it parging the back of face stones in a wet wall. I would burn up mud parging holes while backing one. Usually vertical- smoothing mud out. I just say parge it. I apply it to filling anything with mud to blend with a surface. Parging solves problems, brickies need to learn parging in brickie school. The term scratch coat being used, definitely means your doing a layered application and is part of the preparation for 1 or more layers- from stucco to a heated blue-stone walkway.
 
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