Installing stone veneer over existing board and batten siding - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

natural1 · 11-19-2009, 05:33 PM

I need some advice on the best method for installing stone veneer over an existing cedar board and batten house. A good client of mine would like stone on two sections of his house. The stone would be a 1" or so veneer. My thoughts are to put on a vapor barrier then lath, scratch coat and stone. One question I have is should I remove the batons so the lath is snug to the siding. The batons are spaced about 12" apart. Obviously I should secure the lath into the studs - what type of screws should be used? Is this even a good idea?

Any advice on the best construction methods would be appreciated. I am attaching a photo sorry for the poor quality.

stacker · 11-19-2009, 08:13 PM

first off,yes the battens need to be removed.then house wrap applied.then the lath.the lath should run down over the brick by a few inches.others wont agree with me on this,but ive done this a million times.
i would also put the lath on with an air stapler.making sure the lath is tight.no bubbles or bulges.
now with no disrespect intended,i see you are a landscaper and not a mason.and from your questions,it appears you dont know what you are doing.my advice would be to find a mason that does know what he is doing and sub the job out to him.make a few bucks off of him.this way he will be happy for getting the job,you will be happy for making a few bucks and not have to do anything,and most of all the homeowner will be happy because they got a professional job.

Rockmonster · 11-19-2009, 09:47 PM

I would go one further....get rid of battens, and then the boards. This makes it easier to flash, and you can dress it up with a cedar sill, depending on how high the stone is going. If you have a brain and some pride, you can do just fine. Just because a guy gets paid to do masonry, it does not mean he is a professional. Holy sh#@ I worked for some very successful contractors when I was young, some who were not qualified to clean my trowel. I would not go over the wood however, unless you are going all the way up. There will be differing opinions on this I'm guessing....good luck

GoToBrick · 11-20-2009, 02:26 AM

I agree if you arent going all the way up you should probably remove what wood you need to and flash it and replace it with cement board. that would pretty much eliminate the moisture that builds behind the barrier that could cause probs later.as for the screws I only use stainless. good luck and if you get stuck dont hesitate to call on me...I'm just down the road a ways

natural1 · 11-20-2009, 07:20 AM

Appreciate the feedback.
Yes, the stone is going all the way up so my thought is to remove the battons but leave the siding. When first speaking to the homeowner I suggested removing the siding but he said no. He has a GC license (not a builder but has built a few beach homes) so he is a bit stubborn on that point.

Stacker I may be landscaper but we do a lot of stonework. Would not call myself a mason but I have been doing stonework for about 20 years. Over the past 2 years we probably installed about 150 tons of stone. Just check out my threads that show some of my work. Doing the stone work is not a problem I am lacking the experience for this type of application. It's not rocket science I just want to make sure I do it right.

One idea I had was to do a stacked stone or ledgestone style (6" deep) up to the window with capstone on top. Above that would be veneer. I think it would break it up nicely. The peak of the roof is about 25' high.

Thanks,
Mike

tomstruble · 11-20-2009, 07:24 AM

first off stop calling the house wrap a vapor barrier,and don't use regular house wrap,there are more ''specific for masonry'' multilayerd products you should look in to,or you can go with 2 layers of 30lb felt

Tscarborough · 11-20-2009, 08:02 AM

There are also very good liquid applied products for this application that would allow you to leave the battens in place, then lath over them.

tomstruble · 11-20-2009, 08:13 AM

nice a rainsreen detail,even better

natural1 · 11-20-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tscarborough

There are also very good liquid applied products for this application that would allow you to leave the battens in place, then lath over them.

Thanks, do you happen to have the product name so I can look into it. Do you think lath over the battens will be stable enough? I'm afraid it might flex too much.

Tom, I don't recall using the words "house wrap". I know what house wrap is and had not considered using it. But thanks none the less.

tomstruble · 11-20-2009, 05:25 PM

i know you said vapor barrier which is what you don't want to use
you need a vapor permeable wrb...or house wrap

Tscarborough · 11-20-2009, 06:11 PM

LATICRETE Hydro Barrier™ for example.

2.5 lath with a scratchcoat, mortar bed and stone is not what I would call flexible.

Stone · 11-21-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

LATICRETE Hydro Barrier™ for example.

That is interesting, TSCAR, do you have experience using this product like this and what is the approximate material cost per square foot?
Thanks

natural1 · 11-22-2009, 09:57 AM

Suitable substrates for the product. I would have to call technical support to see if cedar siding is a suitable substrate.

Concrete
Cement Mortar (Thick Bed, Plaster, Underlayment)
Existing Ceramic Tile/Stone1,
Masonry (Brick, Glazed CMU)
Cement Back Board
Cement Terrazzo1,
Exterior Glue Plywood (indoor use)
Resilient Flooring

Note: Do not bond to particle board, flake board, oriented strand board (OSB), luan, yellow pine, pressure/chemically treated wood, Masonite® or hardwood. Refer to Technical Data Sheet 152
for full details on plywood floors.

tomstruble · 11-22-2009, 10:20 AM

i have heard of brush applied window flashing products

but from the note section you posted it dosn't sound like its suitable for your application

nsikes · 12-07-2009, 01:19 PM

Before adding lath and plaster you should take the following steps:

1. Remove battens
2. Install Water resistive barrier, depending on climate, use a vapor permeable WRB or a non-vapor permeable WRB.
3. If you are re-siding take this opportunity to install exterior insulation, there is a good product called R-ETRO High Performance Insulation System.
4. Since your are using a veneer stone product, install the battens over the studs
5. install backer board to span the gaps.
6. Install lath, mortar and stone.
7. Use lintels at windows
8. Install insect screen at base of wall and head flashing areas.
9. Be careful about how you flash around the windows, ensure to integrate the WRB with the sill to allow water to flow to the exterior in case the window frame breaks

tomstruble · 12-07-2009, 05:04 PM

when would you use a non permiable wrb?

Tscarborough · 12-07-2009, 05:10 PM

Why backer board and lath. Why lintels?

nsikes · 12-07-2009, 06:04 PM

When would you use a non permeable WRB?

You would use non permeable WRB with exterior insulation that has no interior insulation or in hot warm climates where the vapor drive is towards the cooled interior.

Why backer board and lath. Why lintels?

I use backer board to give support to the lath between the battens and to avoid filling my cavities created by the battens.

I didn't mean metal lintels what I was referring to is stone lintels. This would look better then stone floating in the air. The cultured stone movement is bad because it doesn't take into consideration the necessary construction techniques of stone and brick especially how they were built to show structural concerns.

I also recommend adding control and expansion joints regularly to account for movement, although in retrofit of an existing building movement is reduced.

Tscarborough · 12-07-2009, 08:21 PM

Homeowners may not apply the stone as it would appear structurally, but masons should.

The purpose of the battens is to support the lath and, if designed properly, to allow a path for moisture exfiltration. The backer board should not be needed.

stacker · 12-07-2009, 08:30 PM

if i was doing this job,like i have done countless times.i would remove the battens.wrap with house wrap,altho we always used 30# felt before.install metal lath with nails or staples,nailed on the studs,plus.i would more than likely add some type of trim around windows,most times 1x2 rough cedar.then go to town laying stone.no flashing, no fancy bug shields,if the owner wanted i would apply an 1" of styrofoam insulation before applying the lath.
i have applied adhered veneer like this for over 30 years and have never had a problem.
had a house have its roof lifted off and put back down by a tornado and only cracked at the chimney.

i just dont see the need for overkill on this project.