Installing Stone Outside. (Waterproofing Question)

KAT_Ayanami

Hi,

We are masons that sometimes install stone veneer at the front of houses.


The way we have been doing it is by stapling tar paper (the same paper as roofing) to the playwood or sheetrock for waterproofing.
Then we nail a wire mesh and we put a coat of concrete for the stone to stick to.

After that, we come back next day and we start installing the stone against the wall.

My question is:

What is better for waterproofing in this case?
- Tar Paper.
- Black Paint (the one used for foundations).
- Other?

Since we nail through it, I am undecided. And since we are no carpenters, we do not know what is best to keep the water out...

Please, let me know.

Thanks.

ilbrickmason

I have always used the tar paper and never had any problems.

__________________
James Fleshner
JRF Masonry
jrfmasonry.wetpaint.com

KAT_Ayanami

Sorry, I wrote the question wrong!

The problem is that the wall is NOT plywood. Instead, they have those concrete panels with wire inside normally used for bathrooms floors.

So I do not know what would be better:

The paint for foundations
or
The tar paper with house wrap.

Thanks!

genecarp

what is behind the concrete panels, are you talking about wonderboard?

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KAT_Ayanami

I do not know...

It is an outside wall that has some kind of concrete, rough finished, board.

But I do not know what exactly is.

I am thinking about using house wrap and tar paper. But since the board is concrete base, I thought that maybe some waterproofing paint would be the way to go........

MALCO.New.York

For a "professional" there is a lot you do not know.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

KAT_Ayanami

Wow. Nice comment.

Congrats



Now.

What is that "a lot" that I do not know?

ONE type of material that I do not know the correct name since I have never used because it is out of my trade and how to waterproof it correctly?

I do not think that is so outrageous. I am sure that building wrap and tar paper is more than enough. But I just wanted to know what would be best just to please the customer.

skyhook

Exactly

See bold print. A ho checking up on the CL contractor, a CL contractor, a wanna be contractor, a DIYer or a troll.

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Greg Di

They probably installed Durock or another Cementious Backer directly over the framing in lieu of plywood thinking it was saving a step.

While CBU and lick and stick stone is OK for an outdoor kitchen, you will have major water vapor issues with CBU used as sheathing. The only saving grace I can think of would be if they installed plywood sheathing as usual THEN a vapor barrior like tar paper or tyvek THEN the CBU.

If it's just a CBU product nailed to the studs, you must address the vapor barrier issue first. I would contact the CBU manufacturer and see what they recommend. AFAIK, as it stands, you have an installation that CBU was not designed for. It may have to be ripped out and done a different way. Or, ripped out and at least have a VB installed first.

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KAT_Ayanami

What is your problem? Do you enjoy calling people trolls or DIYers on a forum whenever they have a question?

We have been installing stone for more than 10 years now. And just because I do not know the english terminology or names of all the components (wire mesh = metal lath) does not mean that I am an amateur. It only means that english is my second language.

If you install stone, I am more than sure that you fully understood what I was trying to say.


We always install the stone veneer the same way.
1. Staple Tybeck.
2. Staple Tar Paper.
3. Nail Metal Lath.
4. Apply Scratch Coat.
Let dry and install Stone.

You know that is the way to do it to avoid moisture filtration and similar issues. So, what is the problem??


The only thing I did not know, I repeat, is the type of board and its insulation procedure because it is not the most common material to use outside.
I just checked the correct name and it is Wonderboard (like genecarp suggested).

So I would only need to know which would be best.
The paper or the asphalt paint.

Greg Di, if they installed the boards and they wanted to keep them there, what would be the best waterproofing then?
It is an outside wall, not kitchen.
Thanks.

genecarp

kat the typicall install when wonderboard is in the mix is as follows
#1 sheathing
#2 30lb felt paper
#3 some kind of drainage board, i use a product by MTI
#4 wonderboard next , screwed on
#5 thinset stone directly to wonderboard
please tell me your exact layer description, with wonderboard, this would be the correct application.G

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Greg Di

Gene's got it pegged. I highly doubt they have it installed to that spec. My guess is that the Wonderboard is screwed right to OSB with nothing in between.

Make sure you tell the GC that the install is wrong if he doesn't fix it. You tell him Gene and Greg told you!!!

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KAT_Ayanami

Thanks for the help.

I really appreciate much more the help that useless comments. If I am saying something wrong, instead of "bolding it", it would be much better to explain me the problem.


Now, I asked the GC and he installed the Wonderboard on top of the sheathing. With nothing in between.

I just told him we were going to install the tybeck and the tar paper and keep going as usual.

He was more than happy with that.
So, problem solved

Thanks for the help!

genecarp

kat, how are you going to install tar paper to wonderboard, and what purpose is the wonderboard serving?

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Greg Di

So you are taking the WB off, installing tar paper, then reinstalling the WB?

That's what you need to do. Sounds like you totally ignored what Gene and I told you to do. You can apply the stone directly to the WB without mesh, but you MUST put that vapor barrier behind it.

Get it?????

__________________
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Remodeling and Home Improvements in Bergen County | EPA Approved Lead-Safe Contractor
Techno Metal Post ::: Residential, Commercial and Industrial Helical foundation piles

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