ICF's and groovey trends - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Anti-wingnut · 10-06-2009, 04:18 PM

Although I have never used ICF forms, I recognized their utility for some projects. What I don't understand is the customers who have bought into the ICF craze lock, stock, and barrel. I have been told how green they are, and how they cheapen the foundation building process, even though the foundation is un-conditioned space, and is not lived in. Furthermore, the customers spent money coating the exterior of the ICF foundation with Dri-vit for asthetic reasons, which I think will soon be red dri-vit with big white styrofoam holes in it soon.

Blockies, brickies, and form builders should be beating their own green drum.

**joasis** · 10-06-2009, 05:02 PM

Maybe you should consider what ICF's offer, and the true advantages. meanwhile, we don't side ICF's. We brick them.

concretemasonry · 10-06-2009, 05:15 PM

Since when have mason contractors ever done any real promotion? Usually it is crying about the low ballers and illegals and not anything positive.

The unions has also done nothing because most basic masonry is non-union, so there are no dues or members to answer to.

Poured concrete (even in steel or wood forms) is not masonry!! - Totally different product when it comes to real construction and promotion.

woodworkbykirk · 10-06-2009, 06:26 PM

if doing dryvit, whynot simply put 1/4" durock on the the block then parge to that , makes for more durable finish does it not

Anti-wingnut · 10-06-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis

Maybe you should consider what ICF's offer, and the true advantages. meanwhile, we don't side ICF's. We brick them.

Jo,

I think you misunderstand me. I think ICF's are great. No dealing with forms and their storage, cutting is easier, and man power is lessened. What I don't get is people who misuse them because they are the newest fangled dealey, and then end up with a product which looks poorer than poured concrete.

I also know that it is by and large not the contractors who are pushing it, but the mags.

**joasis** · 10-07-2009, 05:41 AM

I don't know where you have been, but ICF's are not an "easy" sell...IMO.

They have been around in my area more then 30 years, and we still have trouble selling the upside...even here, in tornado country. The energy numbers cannot be beat...but then again, most people I know get excited when they see them, and as they get serious in a new home plan, they stick with traditional construction, rather then the "new" and better way.

IHI · 10-07-2009, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis

I don't know where you have been, but ICF's are not an "easy" sell...IMO.

They have been around in my area more then 30 years, and we still have trouble selling the upside...even here, in tornado country. The energy numbers cannot be beat...but then again, most people I know get excited when they see them, and as they get serious in a new home plan, they stick with traditional construction, rather then the "new" and better way.

A buddy of mine who is a rep at the local concrete conglomerate "tried" to talk me into ICF's for my new shop, but i can literally build a stick build twice with close cell sprayed on the inside (through connections obviously that i have) vs the cost involved with going ICF's. I had two contractors come over and bid the ICF system for my 30x40x12 garage and the cheapest for WALLS ONLY, no footings, was $21,000

Tack on the typical $55/LF for footings on top of the $21K for walls only, then i have to pay inflated prices to plumb and run electrical....like i said, i can stick build this thing twice and spray closed cell urethane throughout for half price....it's a great product, but by ne means is it half as great as they try to price it.

**joasis** · 10-07-2009, 06:47 AM

21k here, in my area, would have your footings, 6 inch walls, and the floor.

It isn't for everyone, but then, what is?

IHI · 10-07-2009, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis

21k here, in my area, would have your footings, 6 inch walls, and the floor.

It isn't for everyone, but then, what is?

Dont get me wrong/take me wrong, I believe it's an excellent product, esspecially when the contractor/s know WTF they're doing....the string of badly installed product in my area is off the charts as is most concrete related work since it's yet another phase of construction that everybody and their brother thinks, "it's just concrete"...we've been on site to 4 brand new townhouses having french drains installed due to improper overall installtions and the owners that bought the structures cannot say enough bad things about ICF construction since they've paid to have it "fixed" and the few structures we've sided...holy cow, i wish the walls were just bowed and wavey but when you have 3" dips in walls that's excessive and i dont care what the excuse LOL!!

The few HO's i've talked to with jobs that have gone right love it, and there is no way one can argue with the effeicency of these structures or the strength, it's fantastic!! Unfortuantely the cost is very very high initally and then unless you hire one of two crews that i'm aware of dealing with it, your taking a huuuge chance that the end product will be worth a darn anyhow...it's sad really since as my rep told me, "we're trying to push this product and the best and with the best comes an increased price obviously, but then you have just any tom, dick, and harry installing it; installing it wrong, and all the people remember it for is the problems. An you know how fast bad news travels"

Had it been relatively cost comparible, i'd of jumped on it since i'll be out there ALOT and the sound deadening properties for when we fire up the race car/s would greatly benefit my neighbors patience wth me...but like i said, they really like the product judgeing by the price.....mine were bid with 8" walls due to heigth, if i'da dropped down to a 10' wall they told me we could've pushed the envelope with 6" with increased steel schedule, so it would've been a bit cheaper, but no enough to really say, oh my...go with the narrower wall. But i was looking at almost $40K for just the complete 30x40 shell using ICF's....and like i said, i can build two with spray urethane for that amount here in my area with wood...energy cost/savings would be negligable between the two..