How Do You Estimate Ladder Reinforcement

terry714_us

I am bidding on a high school project and am doin the cmu breakdowns. I have done takeoff's before for cmu but never have had to break it all down. I have everything else done except: How to do a takeoff on the amount of ladder reinforcements. The plans call for them at 16" o.c.

Tscarborough

I will assume that you will have multi-wythe masonry walls, masonry veneer with assorted backup and single wythe interior partitions, so you have to do it the hard way:

Break down each wall section into linear feet, then multiply by .5 for every course high. Things to watch for:

Galvanization specifications, it is often HDG exterior and MG interior, with SS becoming more common on the exterior.

On the multi-wythe wire, it is always custom. To price it you will need to know wythe widths, insulation thickness, and airspace thickness.

Mortar dropping collection devices, expensive, becoming common and often missed.

Don't forget to exclude or price the flashing.

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bobcaygeonjon

Can you explain what ladder reinforcement is?
I work in the UK and dont quit understand your terminology.

Thanks

Tscarborough

Horizontal reinforcing wire.

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concretemasonry

Basic ladder reinforcement consists of two longitudinal wires to be placed in the bed joint just inside of the exterior of the wall. There are cross wires welded to the longitudinal wires to maintain spacing. Different spacings can be ordered, but the spacing is between 12" and 16". It is used to tie the units together into a panel for crack control at the end of a panel.

A very similar type has diagonal wires that form a truss.

In some cases either can be used, depending on the needs and specifications.

There are also additional types with auxilliary tabs for a brick veneer or a third wire. Some also have an "eye" projecting out that is used to attach a preformed wire to tie a cavity wall to the back-up. the latter can be usere the brick coursing is different from the block coursing height.

There are different sizes of wires available with different types of coatings and/or corrosion inhibitors.

Joint reinfoecement should not be confused with structural reinforcement. - It is used for continuity.

For a good explanation of joint reinforcement, go the the National Concrete Masonry Association site (ncma.org) and go to the TEK notes by selection a state (any state) and a producer (any producer) and do a search for joint reinforcement or crack control.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

bobcaygeonjon

Ahh yes thanks for clearing that up for me.

The one time I worked in Canada on my first day I was wondering why every bricklayer was carrying about heavy wire cutters. We used the wire with diagonal spacing with tabs projecting out to tie in the brick veneer. Every two course except by door and window openings when we would chop of a small piece and place in every course.
Ive never seen anything like it in the UK. On some of the large commercial sites they may use bed reinforcement but it's wire mesh on a roll. We call it "brick torr".

Again thanks tscarborough and concrete guy.

Tscarborough

As a rule, you do not use horizontal reinforcing in brick work, esp. solid brick work, just with block.

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master mason

Terry 714, check the specs for that job,they may be calling for L-corner and T type wire for intersecting walls.MM

Tscarborough

In all of my years of masonry, I have seen corners and tees spec'ed on 99% of every job, and yet I can count on both hands the number of times they have actually be used. The concept is good on paper, but the fact is that they are not needed, and are probably detrimental to the integrity of the wall. Cut and bent corners provide all that is needed, and t-walls require structural reinforcment not provided by horizontal reinforcement. Just another case of concrete engineers applying reinforced concrete theory to segmental masonry construction.

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master mason

Tscar, your 100% right. We use the same bundle of each and take it from job to job so if an inspector ever questions if we are using it, we can say "yes sir here it is"MM(trick of the trade)

WARD

In my area of the country (and I'm sure many others) we use horizontal reinforcement in all our commercial brick work and occassionaly use it on the houses.

Tscarborough

Could you explain why?

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WARD

Seismic zoning.

Tscarborough

Cool, thank goodness, that is something I do not have to deal with.

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terry714_us

Ok so the specs call out for this Asphalt coated copper flashing. Can anyone tell me how much this stuff is a foot??

terry714_us

Materials:
1. Hot dipped galv. .....B2 coating???? Does the price increase?
2. Stainless Steel wire: ASTM A 580, TYPE 304 OR 316...anything?
3. Minimum diameter: 0.188

concretemasonry

Terry -

Regarding materials -

1. You pay for what you get. You buy what you can find. You use what is specified.

2. Not much difference (304 or 316) since ACI 530 specs both as minimums for stainless. The question is the specs and the availablity. - Availability is the big problem.

3. Diameter depends on what is specified. Extra heavy, 3/16, etc. Obviously thicker is tougher to hold coursing.

It all depends on your ability to know and understand what is specified or what should be used. If specified beyond minimums, it is not your cost since it is really an add-on and you can get paid for it. - Too many masons do not even understand the basic specification of materials and should not be allowed to do anything beyond minimum stadard jobs.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

terry714_us

I have to turn in the bid at 11:00 am this morning. I'll try to get pricing but am weary about getting an anser for pricing by 10:00. If anyone can help with pricing it would be awesome.

Tscarborough

If by some chance you get the job, you are going to have to purchase the materials. You need to contact who ever you will be buying from to get the prices for the bid, because even though I could price everything you need, you won't be buying it from me, so the prices I would quote you are meaningless.

Any SS wire is special order, and must be priced per spec and per job. Call your local suppliers.

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stacker

wish i had read this post before i posted on another on of terry's threads.i said the same thing.now i sound like a copy cat.

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